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Questions from August 2005 - Part II
Part II of Questions from August...
Subject: Boy, I am really thinking now!
Dear Brian,
I know your busy and whether you will have time to read this or not I don't know, but I try anyway in hopes that you will. I kind of associated with your story when you had a desire to leave the ministry. Well, for about a year now, my feelings are some what similar. I just do not have the desire to go to church anymore and still don't. You would think I have AADD, since my mind usually is everywhere except in church about 60 percent of the time. I feel kind of bad about it, but at the same time I don't.
I do have my own ministry of helping churches start their own media ministries. God has given me a vision and the first thing I feel he wants me to do is start a Christian Internet Radio Station, a very progressive, open and affirming one at that. The final stage will be a cable TV channel. Whether all this has any bearing on not wanting to go to church anymore I have no idea.
I was talking to one of my God son's the other day, he is an evangelist, he said I should read some of your books. So I bought a few. Praise God I did because you have no idea what they have done for me. In reading, I believe that I was able to figure out some things as to maybe why I feel the way I do.
…
First, with all that is going on today, I am so sick and tired of the fundamentalist Pharisee's. They scare me a bit and I think they are dangerous. I see no love from them, but only a lust for power, control and money. As far as I am concerned we Christians do not have any right to force our religious beliefs on anyone. After all Jesus gave us a choice and God gave us free will. We should do the same, but apparently those fundamentalists don't think so. So I try and keep my involvement in my church limited. I wish not to do any more than I have to. A few months ago I decided that I will no longer have anything to do with the Christian religion or any religion for that matter. Now I consider myself a spiritual Christian and fully embrace and support Christian spirituality. I do my best to live according to what Jesus taught and your books have helped me in learning to respect other peoples beliefs. I have definitely changed in certain ways and feel that instead of trying to convince people of what I believe, just share my experiences with them and let the Holy Spirit do the rest of the work. Frankly, I feel all I need to do is just plant the seed and let the Holy Spirit water it.
Secondly, I want more. I want to be taken to a higher level because I so bored where I am at spiritually. I know there's more, but I just need to find it.
Thanks to your books and a few by Joyce Meyer I have really begun to think. I feel like I am slowly being taken higher in my spiritual walk right now and I don't want it to stop. Joyce Meyer's books have helped me out a lot emotionally and your books have got me thinking on a differently level regarding scripture. Things I have never thought about before or ways in even looking at Scripture. I really like Neo in your book "The Story We Find Ourselves In." "A New Kind of Christian" is fantastic. Some of the paragraphs in your books I had to read at least three times to try and understand what you were saying. I still don't understand all of it and don't believe I agree with everything, but nobody agrees totally with anybody anyway. So I don't worry about that and am just grateful to have the opportunity to explore those thoughts and theories. I have a few more books of yours that I have and can't wait to start reading.
Anyway, that's my story. I am 57 years old, spirit filled, and have been serving the Lord for a long time. Got saved at around 15 or 16 when I was growing up in the Lutheran Church. I came out when I was 17. I attend a small open and affirming Pentecostal church (never could sit still during service) in x that meets at an open and affirming x. Even though I don't feel like going anymore I still go and haven't missed very many Sunday's. Matter of fact the one's I missed I can count on one hand. I do go because I am media ministry coordinator and it is my responsibility to tape the services, etc. I am currently in the process of training someone new and then the question arises after I get them trained, how often will I go.
This is a period of time in my life where I am scared and excited at the same time. However, I am learning to trust God more and more everyday knowing that He is in full control. I am patiently waiting to see what He has in store for me. Well, let me take that back, I'm not that patient. Of course, since I don't have choice I just have to wait and see.
Keep up the good work, be safe, healthy and may God continue to bless you abundantly.
A: Thanks. I hope that people who read your letter will get a feel for how our churches come across to many, many people.
Subject: Thank you!
Hello Mr. McLaren,
I’m only on page 72 of your book, “Finding Faith,” and I am blown away so far! I was raised a Jehovah’s Witness, and as I reached young adulthood I started questioning many of my “programmed” teachings and beliefs. I am now 26, and have spent the last few years tearing down those beliefs by reading every book and website that puts Jehovah’s Witnesses in a negative light. I suppose that this was my way of stepping out of my “stage 1” faith, because I needed to convince myself that I wasn’t going to die at “armageddon” just because I didn’t interpret every single thing the same way they did. It was a very hard time for me. I became very jaded on the whole “faith” thing, reasoning that since nobody out there really “has it right,” that it was impossible for me to ever find the answers. I gave up on faith, religion, the whole nine yards.
However, over the last year I’ve found myself not happy with my blanket “faith is impossible” belief. I’ve started questioning things again, and come to realize that just because one cult doesn’t have the answers doesn’t mean that I can’t find them. My girlfriend’s father loaned me your book today, and I haven’t put it down since I got home from work. Just in the first few chapters I’ve already had several unexpected emotional outbursts, something that has NEVER happened to me before! I program computers for a living, and am very logical by nature. I actually had to physically stop reading a few times and just cry. If nothing else, you have already helped me come to grips with my decision to leave the Jehovah’s Witness cult, and you’ve reinforced for me the decisions that I made and why I made them. Just having one single person “out there” who seems to understand me so precisely is such a relief! I almost feel like you wrote this book specifically for me…that’s how close it hits to home.
Thank you so much. Now I’m going to stop typing and keep reading!
A: Thanks so much. “Finding Faith” has a special place in my heart because at heart, helping others get in touch with God is my main calling in life. So hearing from you means a lot to me. Thanks so much!
Subject: a fan but also a sister in this journey
i click on a link in which i have no idea of the direction, but i do wish to post a comment and ask a question. i have recently graduated from a christian high school. the approach of college and 'the future' makes one glance at life and wonder. i admit so much of my life has been spent in the church. i've been baptist, pentecostal, nondenominational, calvary chapel, and recently described myself as a Jesus follower out of frustration if not rebellious denial to be apart of what is culturally referred to as christianity. i dont want to be apart of the exclusivism, the back biting, or the holier than thou schema. the Jesus i know is soo much more than that and i've felt Him call my name. i was in the depths of frustration when i came across your books in a tiny store in the mountains of colorado. a good part of my summer mornings have been spent contemplating and reading 'different' things. you might even be pleased to know that within the category are not only your books but greek mythology and quaker spirituality. to say the least it has been a great summer of learning and pushing ahead. i had heard the adjective 'controversal' added to describe your works and approached reading them with a objective eye. i found however, as i'm sure you have heard many times, myself nodding in agreement and wanting to change the world. i'm SOO frustrated with christianity today, a generalization to which i am a part. something different needs to be done, and as a member of the younger generation i would love to start a revolution. however i have no idea where to begin, who to talk to, or how to approach life with a new outlook. i'm a baby and i long for spiritual food. i would love nothing more than to come to your church and be a servant and soak in knowledge and grow in truth. my present circumstances, however do not permit such an aspiration. i am going to samford univeristy in two weeks. i'm moving down there and face so many decisions and new things. i can't wait to find a church of my own and i want to start looking right away. all that to encourage you but also to ask if you would have a suggestion of a church in Birmingham Alabama. thank you so much for taking the time to read my thoughts.
A: Thanks so much. Hearing from you reminds me that there are thousands of young adults like you, people who want to change the world as you say, and who want to be followers of Jesus in a fresh and needed way. I will be at Samford in April, and hope to meet you then. I hope you have found a church by now … you might try putting a posting on the message board that is linked to emergentvillage.com. Thanks again.
Subject: Adventures in Missing the Point
Hello Mr. McLaren,
I just wanted to express how amazing your thinking and writing is. I recently read your book that you co-wrote with Tony Campolo, "Adventures in Missing the Point" for a Christian Worldview class in college and was either totally awe-struck or down-right excited that someone has thoroughly thought through the issues of how to think in this day and age, or how we got here, and the amount of encouragement from that book was amazing! I loved learning that questioning some of the teachings or theologies that are flying around isn't wrong; learning that I should be finding out for myself what believe and grow up spiritually.
At the same time while reading your book, we also read a book by Lesslie Newbigin, "The Gospel in a Pluralist Society." This team of literature was life changing. Thank you for contributing to my own personal growth as a Christian. Oh, and one of my friends is going to let me borrow "A New Kind of Christian" to read.
A: I am greatly honored to be read alongside Newbigin, whose work has had a huge effect on me. Thanks!
Subject: No Subject
I was given a copy of your book "A New Kind of Christian" in an accidental - perhaps providential - way. As a science teacher myself, I have found in it a tremendous sense of relief, that some of my thoughts, secret thoughts, thoughts I have seldom dared to share even with myself, have also been thought by someone else - and that those thoughts did not lead to agnosticism! I am encouraged.
A: I am encouraged to hear from you. Some people feel that I am undermining faith, but I don’t think they understand how many people are holding on by their fingernails, so to speak, and I hope my books can help them realize that following Christ is not an anti-intellectual affair, but rather an adventure that evokes the best from us – in heart, soul, mind, and body.
Subject: thanks for Chip from TLWATWAT
Brian,
Don't want to take too much time but just wanted to say thanks for the NKOC trilogy and for the Chip character in TLWATWAT. I didn't see myself as much of sceptic of modern christianity (like many people I know that were really questioning things) and actually would have put myself in someone like Chip's shoes who would have at first been very much against the emergent conversation. Have there been more initial sceptics like me to the emergent conversation who are now excited about it?
A: Yes. Chip was built on several people whom I’ve gotten to know. And as you can see from other postings here, there are quite a few people like yourself who have a negative initial reaction, but then see better possibilities.
Subject: Ashera poles?
Hey Brian. Or should I say Mr. McLaren?
I'm at one of those weird transition points in my life where kids at VBS call me Mr. Steve, friends call me Steve-o, my students at school call me Mr. x, and once in a while I get confused with some guy on my university campus named Charlie. They never teach you how to address authors. Sure, I've learned to respece my elders and such, but here's a doozy: when do you call your former high school teachers by their first name...or do they forever remain Mr/Ms. Suchandsuch? So, after you've figured out that quagmire, continue reading.
I've nearly completed "A Generous Orthodoxy," which was reccommened to me by a university professor who, like myself, hates to be boxed, labeled, and shipped as either a baby-eating Kerryan or Bible-toting Bushite. Your insight into the faith has been utterly refreshing to me. See, I was a part of the x movement on my campus (Transylvania University...
I hope I don't sound I'm capitously ragging on an organization, person, or the Body, but you can tell that I've thrown up my hands to the American Christianity I've been told to accept time and time again as the God-given truth to Protestants of the conservative sort. Anyway, your book showed me that I'm not alone per say....that my overthinking (besides getting me in trouble) is not entirely of the devil, that my critical spirit can still be salvaged and possibly used for the kingdom of God. Thanks for taking that chance to publish something so honest as to elicit criticism from much of the faith community. None of us have it all figured it out, so to take the step of faith and just be honest with you as an individual believe (and not what an ideological group professes) is to be admired. Thank you, and praise God that this book fell into my hands!
A quick question before our sweet departure: in the Incarnational chapter (p. 253), you spoke of how Western Christianity has practiced a sort of "cultural replacement" less explosive than the Taliban's methodology. My question (and one that is posed by many a skeptic student and professor at my school) is how do we reconcile God's command to the Israelites in the Hebrew Bible to cut down Ashera poles, crush/kill/destroy entire villages of Baal worshippers, and smash idols on the ground? I mean, I could see if the Israelites did this on their own accord, but how do I reconcile God's command of this Biblical example of ethnic cleansing? Your insight is much appreciated.
Thanks for taking the time to read this. I am now going on a hot date with my mother to Souper/Salad!
A: Listen, you’d better be careful or you’re going to become a writer yourself! I laughed out loud while reading your post. Thanks for brightening my day. Yes, “Brian” is the official title I prefer. Your question about Asherah poles is huge. I can’t go into a lengthy answer, but let me give you a little Bible study that I think you’ll enjoy and find helpful.
Read Matthew 14 and 15, and then the first paragraph of Deuteronomy 7. Notice the reaction of the Jewish establishment to John and Jesus in Matthew. Notice the fact that Jesus in among Gentiles in chapter 15 (very significant!). Notice the numbers (12 baskets in chapter 14, and 7 in chapter 15.) Try linking the number 7 in chapter 15 with the 7 in Deuteronomy 7. Could the 7 baskets in Matthew 15 be a resonance with the 7 nations of Deut. 7 – and in this way be a complete rejection, forever, of genocide or holy war? See where this line of thinking takes you. And keep writing – you’ve got real talent!
Subject: Comment
Aloha Brian,
I really enjoyed the correspondence between you and Chuck Colson. I learned alot from what you didn't agree on and the maturity from both ends.. It is very helpful when great minds get together and let the rest of us in on the conversation. I heard J Vernon Mcgee the other day on the radio say something like: If we come to an agreement on everything we don't agree on we will end up loosing what we do agree on. Sort of like a step toward one world religion I think. Anyway it is good to struggle our way toward understanding and only Pharisees will think they know everything and Jesus didn't get far with them.
A: Thanks. Yes – there’s value in having differences of perspective, isn’t there? I think Paul is affirming this in Romans 14.
Subject: appreciation
Brian,
I'm pretty much just another youth minister trying to keep up with emergent stuff, books, my family, and this group of junior and senior high students who seem to be ok with me hanging around them. I'm in that awkward place between youth work and church ministry where I long to see the church as a whole come together in a way that our youth group does (sometimes...minus the foul smelling ingredients of the unusual games we play on Wednesday nights...)
Anyway, point is, I appreciate your work. You keep me thinking of what may be around the corner and why isn't it now and what can a lowly youth minister do.
After reading your 3 posts this week, I am convinced of your genuine heart for people and for the Kingdom and I'd take that anyday over...just about anything else. You are Christlike, not just being or acting. Thanks for showing us how it can be done.
A: This is kind of you to say. Of course, I have a thousand faults and you could catch me on a bad day and see much that is unChristlike too. So we are all in need of much, much grace. Thanks for your encouragement.
Subject: Encouragement
Hello Brian,
I appreciate your response to critics who seem to know more about you (the fictional you) that yourself. I am one who has read most of your books to date and feel that I connect with what you're saying and trying to express to others who listen with, perhaps, half-open ears or minds that are already made up.
I know that you know you have many supporters who echo your sentiments, I just want you to know you have another who stands up for what you're trying to do. I realize I can just as easily misrepresent the "nonfictional" you as your critics, but I have tried to respond to those within my cirlce of influence to at least disspell some of the misrepresentations by your critics. Most of that is to encourage them to actually read your books before reading criticisms and responses to them.
Well, I won't ramble on... again, thank you being willing to take a "beating" to speak to where we are, where we're headed, and the questions we face.
A: Thanks. It has been a bit discouraging to see how often people pass on misrepresentations. I guess it’s old-fashioned gossip.
Subject: Being a bridge person
Hi,
I saw your story about being a bridge person in a Sojourners email. I'm wondering if you're aware of any online groups that join Christians, New Agers, ?agnostics, scientists and artists in order to learn how to bridge the various divisions within religious and nonreligious communities?
I had a dream back when Bush was first elected, I was part of a community church/school called the San Christopher Audition Center. It was dedicated to bridging the divisions between Christian and non-Christian groups (Buddhism and New Age being prominent), recognizing spirituality without tribalism and creating a shared space that didn't single out one religious community against others. I had a sense that the purpose of Christ in this church was not to single ?out the Christian community and condemn everyone else, but to provide a vehicle for the healing of the world, using the talents of all groups, including those that were not religious. Although some members of the ?church were traditional Christians, there was no stigma against heresy, and a love of learning of all kinds.
Outside the center, we were debating a small group of fundamentalists, arguing that Armageddon could be prevented. The fundamentalists had made up their minds, and the rest of us were tring different ways to ?convince them they were wrong and that the world was not meant to be destroyed. The dream ended there. The question of Armageddon seemed to depend on the ability of Christians to work with non-Christians and vice versa. The earth would be saved if boundary lines could be transcended. If not, the toxic vision of the fundamentalists would prevail.
I've been trying to honor that dream by spending time with different groups online, looking for places where progressive Christians and non-Christians could intersect. If you have any thoughts or suggestions, let me know.
A: Thanks for sharing this dream. I think you’ll find some resonance in my upcoming book “The Secret Message of Jesus.” Obviously, like my fundamentalist brothers and sisters, I believe that Jesus is unique and that his life, work, and teaching really matter. But I don’t believe that exempts us from needing to be good neighbors to people of other religions or no religion. The very opposite – according to the Sermon on the Mount, we are to imitate God who is kind and generous to everyone.
Subject: Generous Orthodoxy & 3 parts on Emergent US
Just to encourage you.
As a UK "bum on a seat", rather than any kind of theologian or leader or anything I found a Generous Orthodoxy really useful in helping me learn loads about other traditions. It also helped me get past a few of the worries I have about emergent being the latest "evangelical marketing programme".
I have read the 3 parts of your story you posted on Emergent US, and have e-mailed here as I was unable to post a comment there & feel that you should be encouraged that whilst it seems to be hitting the fan from some "intellectual" directions in the US people like you and Alan Jamieson are really supporting those of us looking to understand where we fit into church in our culture and how God might be reshaping us.
I don't agree with you on everything, but I respect that you are trying to work out what's going on and also, having read the book and a few postings on the net I have started to appreciate why you won't comment clearly on some stuff. It means alot that you are taking flack for, from where I'm sitting, holding on to what you believe whilst realising there are real people on the other people.
A: Thanks. I think you’re so right – we can respect one another even when we don’t agree on everything. In fact, that’s probably when respect counts the most!
Subject: comments
You probably get a 100 of these a day so i will try to keep this short.
First I have been a pastor (a youth/college pastor no less) for almost 30 years now and have been a part of one of the most mainline denominations one could be in, Presbyterian USA. Many think we are circling the drain (I feel that way at times) but many feel that we are the kind of denomination that can also reach the next generation (whatever that is). I also feel that way some times. I am now in the half century mode of my life and so I have seen some things come and go and I am also a product of my culture and education and family life. I don't get a lot of the emerging stuff but I get some and I like some of it a great deal. I don't blog because I don't have the time; I need to meet with students who are thinking of whether they should have sex or not before marriage. I am not saying those that blog don't love Jesus and others, I am just saying I don;don't get the whole blogging thing.
I really enjoyed your book Brian. To tell the truth I really enjoyed the time you spent in the book called "The Church in the Emerging Culture" It had some great interchange of ideas and it also had a reformed guy who is really way smarter than anyone should be allowed to be. Anyway, like I said I really enjoyed your book Generous Orthodoxy and I think you should write some more.
I didn't agree with everything you said but so what you made me think and question and go to scripture and laugh and hey that is good.
I didn't like some of the things you said, especially about reformed theology but let me say that if you check most of the best pastor pension plans out there are offered by reformed churches and so have a least one thing going for us.
I have only met you once and have heard you speak several times. I have never had you over for dinner to my house and so I try not to tell people you and I are 'close'. On the other hand I do tell people that they should read your book because I like the way you write, you made me laugh and think and I know you love Jesus and want others to experience his love and salvation in their lives also.
I don't think you are against absolute truth in any way no matter how many bloggets are saying that. I didn't sense that in your book at all. (Well, although you did make an unkind remark about John Calvin and that caused me to nearly upset my desk and knock my bobble head Calvin off and he could have broke). Evangelicals and bobbleheads, is there any thing more silly and stupid than that. Oops, sorry, I said this would be short.
So I am done, if you want to respond you can but if you don't I won't worry, after all you are a pastor, a fact that many seem to forget and I know how busy pastors are not trying to be emergent, or post-whatever, or 'on the cutting edge' but just trying to keep marriages together, high school students from drinking and driving, seniors from feeling like no one cares, visiting with people who are dying and just want to be with Jesus.
Thanks for sharing some of your life and thoughts with me, that takes courage.
In His Service
A fellow pilgrim, hoping he doesn't embarrass Jesus too much.
A: Thanks for your note which brought a big smile to my face. Be careful – people like you may spoil the bad reputation some people are giving Calvinism! If word gets out how many Calvinists there are like you – people of good humor, good cheer, humility, and charity – the “Machen’s warrior children” image may become passé!
Subject: Ever thought of writing an expository commentary of the Bible
Hi Brian,
I have read and loved all your books. I believe they are a gift from God. God used NKOC to literally change my heart and life and ministry. My only question is, have you ever considered doing an expository commentary on the Bible, or a book of the Bible, say Revelation or Romans or Luke or something? I find that, while I love your ideas and they are very thought provoking, some of them seem inconsistent with parts of the Bible. For me to fully embrace any theological view, it has to pass the “Bible test.” I would love to see how you interpret some passages because that is what turns the lights on for me, and I believe for many, many others as well.
This is the third time I have written to ask this question over the past 6 months. Please post this one with a reply. Pretty please.
A: Yes, I recognize you! Like the persistent widow in Jesus’ parable, you may prevail on me by your persistence!
Subject: Fw:
Mr. McLaren
1. Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the Jehovah of the Old Testament the eternal God incarnate in human flesh.
2. Do you believe the Holy Spirit authored all 66 books of the Bible as He moved men to write them.
3. And do you believe that all 66 books are Inspired, infallible and inerrant.
A simple yes or no would be appreciated, laying aside this thought on postmoderism and dancing around the questions.
A: A few questions in response:
1. Do you believe that the Religious Right is wise in its collaboration with the Republican Party? How serious is it to you that the Christian faith is now seen as being pro-war, pro-rich, and anti-sinner? Why are so many Christians commonly known as the enemies of sinners instead of their friends?
2. Do you believe that Job’s so-called comforters were inspired by the Holy Spirit? Why are their words included in the Bible, if God says later in the book that they had spoken untruthfully? What does it say about Scripture that God includes the words of Job’s comforters, and in fact their words make up the majority of the book?
3. Do you believe that Jesus’ words about turning the other cheek should be taken literally? Would you apply them to international affairs, and why, and how?
I think you can see that demanding simple one-word answers isn’t always a fair or even wise thing to do. But just to reassure you, I believe that all Scripture is inspired by God and is profitable for teaching, rebuke, correction, and training in right living so that God’s people may be fully equipped to do good works. Whatever Scripture says about itself, I fully support.
Subject: Thoughts on "The Last Word and the Word After That"
Dear Rev. McLaren,
Hello! I have just this moment finished reading _The Last Word and the Word After That, and I felt moved to write to you. My father loaned me the book in part of a weird sort of dialogue-through-books we're having (I loaned him The Dance of the Dissedent Daughter a couple weeks back).
As you can probably guess from my email address, I am not a Christian -- but I was raised United Methodist, in a long-standing multiracial, social justice congregation. The pastors we had when I was growing up were not exactly hellfire-and-brimstone types, but there was always talk about salvation in the church, and we talked about the idea of hell sometimes at home.
I found your book amazing and it really inspired a lot of hope in me. Part of the reason I left the church is that so many Christians in the world are horribly misguided -- warping the teachings of a very good and sacred person into their own images and doing incredible harm in the process. Your book comes from the place that I think Jesus was coming from: love, reconciliation, a challenge to make a positive difference in the world and quit excluding people.
I really hope that your book reaches people, helps "recovering fundamentalists" (what a great phrase!) get their feet under them and start working to make a positive difference here and now instead of hollering about where we're all going to end up after we die. We can't really know that for sure and certain until we get there, so I say we should focus on doing good here and have faith that God is good and will do right by us.
Thank you so much for your thoughtful, thought-provoking novel. I wish there were more Christians like you in the world.
A: Thanks so much. Your words mean a lot to me. I hope that people who read this site will realize how many people like you there are in our world … and perhaps see how they (unintentionally) come across.
Subject: Satan, Spirtual Warfare and me...
Hello,
I have read most of your books except your very first book which I just ordered and am axiously waiting for. I love your writing. I've heard you speak and your words are convicting and you can tell that your love for Jesus is real and truly passionate and that does inspire me. Thanks for your ministry! I hope the Lord continues to encourage your spirit. I know His work through you has encouraged mine to the point of taking a very week spiritual soul like mine in the last couple years by restoring it again to my childhood faith in Jesus. I feel like I've grown greatly in the last couple years and I believe your books have been part of that. Thank you!
I do have a question however. I've heard a lot of talk in the Emerging circles about sin, faith, the bible, truth, desconstruction and the list can go on but one thing I hear very little about is Satan and Spiritual Warfare. Why is this or is this being talked about and I just do not know? How does Satan fit into the Emerging Church? Can people still be possesed and ?opprssed by Satan and Demons?
The reason I ask can be found in two reasons. First I have several friends at my University who are Wicans and though they are good people and people I love dearly they are participating in things that make me nervous. I am not shoving Christianity at them but I do try and show them the love of Jesus the you've talked about in some of your books and others have talked about. I however have been more and more put on edge by some of there thinking and ways. In many was it seems as if they worship satan and just don't know it. I'm not trying to be judgemental but it is an observation. At times I feel like Satan is behind things that they do. Second I also know a couple of people who are in the Black Ocult (Satanism essentially) and one of them is my own sister. No one in my family knows except me. I see all this and I'm ?scared silly to be honest and then I also think to myself how can this be possible. How can this go on. I don't know if this e-mail makes sense at all but I guess i'd like to know how does the Emerging Church view things like this that I've mentioned?
A: Thanks for your note. First, please remember (and tell other people) that I am not the spokesperson for emergent or the emerging church. I am just a participant. I’m sure my writing is strong in some areas and weak in other areas. On the subject of Satan and spiritual warfare, I think there are other people who are better spokespeople than I am. I address the subject briefly in The Story We Find Ourselves In, and also in The Secret Message of Jesus. I would say one thing, though, speaking as a pastor more than an author: you don’t need to be afraid. Jesus has defeated all the powers of evil. We need to be aware of evil, and to avoid it, but we don’t need to be afraid. Knowing how much we are loved by God pushes fear away and replaces it with confidence, so that, as Paul said in Romans 12, we can overcome evil with good.
Subject: Question
Dear Brian, have you read "The Heart of Christianity" written by Marcus Borg? Is there anyway we can overcome the division between mainline and evangelical Christians?
A: Yes, I’ve read it and found so much in it that I agreed with. My guess is that Marcus and I are coming from two different poles and our paths are converging in many ways. I look forward to meeting him later this year. In “A Generous Orthodoxy” I express the same desire that you express – that postliberal and postconservative Christians can come together in unprecedented ways to work for the kingdom of God.
Subject: Finding Faith
Hello,
My name is x, and I work as a missionary to students at x University. I help oversee a ministry of about 500 students. We are affiliated with x Ministries, ?and our on-campus name is x.
I am writing because I recently read the book, Finding Faith. I found it to be a very helpful approach to the questions that many students seem to ask. Each fall our ministry attempts to do a book give away on campus. We are tossing around the idea of trying to give out free copies of Finding Faith to students at x.
I was wondering if there is any possibility of getting a large number of copies of this book (100-200) at a discounted rate. As of now, the lowest price I have found on the internet would make this idea unworkable because of cost. Is it possible to go directly through the publisher? Does Mr. McLaren have the ability to offer this book at a lower price?
Thank you so much for your help with this. I appreciate your time and consideration.
A. I’m sorry I’m getting to this so late – too late for the fall semester and spring semester! I would encourage you to contact the publisher about this. Again, sorry for the delay.
Subject: adventures in missing the point
hi,
my name is x and i am a worship leader at a baptist church in x. i just finished reading your book with campolo, adventures in... i am x years old, and am just beginning to study and become aware of the emerging culture (at least formally). alabama, if you don't already know, is about five years behind the curve on receiving and processing cultural info./changes/trends. i am seeking new and different expressions of worship, more than just 'happy' songs every sunday. i do believe, as you do, that meeting the needs of the poor and affecting social change, is very important. i will be reading more of your writing in the future. thanks for your insight and questions about everything we have come to take as absolute truth.
A: Well, I hope I’m not raising questions about everything! But you’re welcome. Worship leaders like you have such an important role, because the theology we sing becomes the theology we live. God bless you and all who share your calling!
Subject: May I have permission to use your book for my on-line course?
Dear Mr. McLaren,
Thank you for your engaging and thoughtful writing. I am a teacher at x online school in x and would like to use your book "A Generous Orthodoxy" for my Social Studies on-line course. I, therefore, would like permission to copy Chapter 16: Why I am Green? onto our web site for use with my 'Stewardship of a Nation Unit'. The chapter will be referenced appropriately.
May I have permission to use your book for my on-line course in this way?
A: I believe there are “fair-use” provisions that make educational photocopying acceptable, but I’m not sure about online posting. Yes, you’d need to contact the publisher about this. I’m so glad you’re teaching your students about our responsibility as stewards of God’s creation – and I hope you’ll be able to use the chapter in some form.
Subject: the secret message of jesus
just out of sheer curiosity.......
i read on your site somewhere that you are writing a book called The Secret Message of Jesus....
Lately i have been pretty fascinated with early Christian history reading such authors as Elaine Pagels and Bart Ehrman. these two authors in particular discuss at great length the Gnostic Christians... your book's title kind of sounds like a gnostic saying or belief that there is some secret knowledge in Christ's message and that only a select few know the truth.
any who - i was just curious as to what the book is going to be about and whether or not any of that gnostic "what not" plays any sort of role in your new book.
A: Thanks for your question. I will propose in the book (which comes out in April 06) that the message of Jesus in the canonical gospels is actually more radical – and interesting, and relevant - than the so-called Gnostic gospels. But I understand the appeal of the Gnostic gospels – which I try to tap into in the book. I hope you’ll find it helpful!
Subject: Different cultural paradigms
Kia ora (be full of life)! Brian,
I'm a New Zealand Maori living in the city of Victoria, British Colombia, Canada. I attended a seminar that you hosted called ' Shifting Realities ' at Lambrick park church a couple of years ago. I remember having a great time and have since been journeying, rediscovering, adventuring, doubting, redefining my faith walk as I remain in Him. Your books , articles, interviews have all been a part of that and so I'd just like to say "Thanks" for raising the questions and challenging the status quo so that we can go to a better place, make this world a better place.
I'm submitting an article that I wrote below that you might find interesting and maybe disturbing. Its takes into account how another culture might perceive one of the stories of Jesus. Its a bit long to be posted but you might like to read it for your enjoyment. All the best to ya mate, Ka kite ano ( till I see you again ) !
Eat my flesh and drink my blood
The Gospel of John chapter 6:52 - 66 is the account that Jesus gave describing himself as the bread of life. Further more - that unless you ate His flesh and drank His blood, you could have no part in Him. There were hopes for Jesus - Messiah , Prophet , like the King David of old to drive out the Roman scourge that plagued Israel. Things looked great - until He said "eat my flesh and drink my blood"! From a Jewish perspective - that was an absolutely scandalous thing to say! The Torah ( first 5 books of the Bible ) strictly forbade the Jews from consuming any kind of blood - let alone human blood. Touching a dead body made you unclean - let alone eating one! "This is a hard saying!" Many disciples drew back and no longer went about with Him ( verse 66 ). Honestly , I think that if we were there and heard that for the first time - it might make us somewhat queasy as well... not so with my Ancestors!
I hail from New Zealand - of Maori decent (who are the aboriginal people of that land - Tangata whenua). We are a warrior culture and in ancient times , now and again, we practiced cannibalism. One of the reasons for this was that, if you found yourself in combat with a prominent warrior ( who would be heavily 'chisel' tattooed on his face - what we call 'Ta moko' ) and killed him - you would cut off his head and put it through a process of preservation. Then you would eat his body - the idea behind this was to make his honor, prestige, courage, skill, strength, goodness (all summed up in the Maori words ' Mana ', ' Ihi ' ,' Wehi ' and his ' Wairua ' or spirit ) your own. You would preserve his head because his ' moko ' was not only an artistic expression but actually the warrior's biography - his story carved into his face for all to read. That head would remind you of his ' Mana ' and ' Wairua ' that now courses through your being making you more than you were before.
When the missionaries and priests first came to the villages of the Maori, they would sit around the fire - telling the stories of Jesus. I think that this story would make a lot of sense to the Maori - their eyes would widen and their ' Moko ' would come to life in the fire light. It’s possible they would think Jesus - this great chief, who for the love of us, laid down his life in this cosmic, spiritual battle whereby winning our victory! He asks us to eat his flesh and drink his blood to remind us of him. In that context its probable they would understand Jesus invites them to make His ' Mana ' their own. Receiving His ' Wairua ' into the core of their being making them more - much more than they were before.
As I think about my cultural perspective on this , it gives me some interesting insights into what I'm actually doing at communion time. It also begs some interesting questions: If I eat the flesh and drink the blood of Jesus, how does that change me? What effect does that have on my thinking, personality, attitudes and values? What effect does that have on my relationships: family, workplace, church, friends,... enemies, wife, opposite sex and sexuality in general. If I eat His flesh and drink His blood - what effect does that have on the community that I live in? The world I'm a part of ? The environment I'm responsible for - God’s art, story, ‘Moko’ ?... perhaps, All good food for thought - don't you think ? And there's probably more that you could think of. So the next time we come to the communion table, lets eat heartily and drink deeply ..... like an ancient Maori would .
A: Thanks! What a beautiful and stimulating article! I often think of Jesus’ words in the middle of that passage – that his words are spirit and life. That should have told them he was speaking metaphorically! In that sense, I think your article becomes even more interesting and powerful. I’ll be visiting your homeland in a couple of weeks (Feb. 06). I’m thrilled to see how first nations peoples are grappling with the teachings of Jesus. Can I recommend that you check out an excellent article by my friend Mabiala Kenzo at anewkindofconversation.com? Also, I recommend you check out the work of Wiconi international and in particular the work of Richard Twiss and Randy Woodley in engaging with the gospel from a native American perspective. Great things happening in this regard! Keep up the good work.
Subject: Are You In or Out? article
I've found references to an article entitled "Are You In or Out?", but can't find where it was published or, better yet, a link to it on the web. Do you know where I might be able to find this article? Thanks!
A: Sorry – I can’t remember writing an article by this title.
Subject: A question for someone who is full of the Spirit and wisdom...
I am a young Christian man who’s been in full-time youth ministry for half a year and could already relate to Dan’s beginnings in a New Kind of Christian. I must admit that the book has opened me up to a more real sense of my true spiritual state, and though the process is painful, God has used Brian’s book to reach into the depths of my soul and give me hope for the church and for ministry in a postmodern culture.
I have a question that I would love to hear an answer for from someone in the emergent church movement.
Acts 6:2-4 NIV – So the Twelve gathered all the disciples together and said, “It would not be right for us to neglect the ministry of the word of God in order to wait on tables. Brothers, choose seven men from among you who are known to be full of the Spirit and wisdom. We will turn this responsibility over to them and will give our attention to prayer and the ministry of the word.
I am a youth pastor who has become very disconcerted and pained by modernity’s effect on Christianity. I have read this passage many times and have heard it applied that the Twelve refused to neglect “the ministry of the word,” and today that means the Bible. But what was this word they were preaching? They had no New Testament, only what Christ taught them and what the Holy Spirit was teaching them. What were they focusing their efforts on? What were they preaching? And how was it so intimately connected to prayer? What did the phrase ‘the word’ mean to them before we modernized it to refer to the 66 books of the canon? I want to find the heart of the message of the Bible, and it all centers around Christ, the Living Word. What were they preaching? And how can we get back to that?
A: Thanks for this excellent question. It’s clear from the book of Acts that the “word of God” to which they were referring was the teaching of and about Jesus. It’s interesting to look at the last paragraph of Acts and see what Paul’s message was: Jesus and the kingdom of God, which was at the center of Jesus’ teaching. That’s one of the reasons I wrote “The Secret Message of Jesus” – to try to draw attention back to what was at the center of the early church’s message.
Subject: Question re similar local churches
Hi,
Are there any churches or congregations in the Rochester, NY or its surrounding area that have a nearly identical perspectives as Brian McLaren?
I"ve read several of his web site articles and found them quite interesting.
A: You’ve probably seen a lot of questions like this in these postings. I’m hoping that emergentvillage.com can create something to help people link up.
Subject: FW: Please Forward to Brian McLaren
Brian,
I just read your "Open Letter To Worship Songwriters" and thought I'd drop you a line. Thanks for the encouragement. I've been writing for 30 years and have attached for your perusal one song that I think fits each of the 5 Biblical themes you suggested.
1. Eschatology - Ready To Go http://www.quailchurch.com/files/Download/557url.pdf
2. Mission - Hearts Like His http://www.quailchurch.com/files/Download/598url.pdf
3. Historic Christian Spirituality - I Surrender All http://www.quailchurch.com/files/Download/341url.pdf
4. About God - You Are Holy http://www.quailchurch.com/files/Download/380url.pdf
5. Lament - Jesus, I Need You http://www.quailchurch.com/files/Download/407url.pdf
Since I work at an a cappella Church of Christ these are all arranged for 4-part a cappella. Am I on the right track? I'm pretty old-fashioned but try to write in a language that's consistent with how I talk.
Thank you for your writing and speaking and for listening. I heard you at the ZOE conference in Nashville last October. May God richly bless you as you follow His lead.
A: I hope others will find these resources helpful. I love a capella singing, and continue to be impressed by the creative musical work of people like you. Thanks!
Subject: question
I am part of a Sunday school class that is dying. A couple of us have read ?A New Kind of Christian and were incredibly inspired by it. Our usual ?Tuesday night bible study is going on hiatus until Labor Day, and to fill ?the gap, we are planning on doing a book club of sorts. We would love to ?read A New Kind of Christian as a group, we think it would do wonders for ?our group and for the people in it. We do have one problem, we are a group ?of 20 somethings, who don't have a great deal of expendable income, so the ?price of the book would be an issue. We do not want to make copies of the ?book for everyone; we don't think that is right. Do you have any ?suggestions for us? Would we be able to pay you a fee to be allowed to make ?copies of the books? There would only be about 7 or 8 people participating ?in the book club, but I know we would not be able to do it because of the ?cost. Any help or suggestions you can offer would be greatly appreciated.
A: One solution might be to buy used books via amazon.com, which are considerably cheaper, and quite a few are available. Sorry this reply is so long delayed!
Subject: Does Brian practice the spiritual discipline of Nepsis - "Sober Vigilance"?
Hi,
I am interested in conversing with Evangelicals - I understand that although Brian is not an Evangelical that he is interested in Evangelical Spirituality to some extent - on the practice of the spiritual discipline of Nepsis - Sober Vigilance.
I am attaching my present ministry statement as the background to this inquiry - I am interested in any material Brian may have on Nepsis.
A: I’m sorry – I’ve never heard this term before, so I don’t have anything to offer. By the way, I hope that even where I’m not considered “E”vangelical, I will be considered “e”vangelical.
Subject: A Generous Orthodoxy
I just bought the book yesterday and could not put it down. My background is similar to
Brian's and I was thankful to read some things that echoed beliefs I have had. I am a member of a small non-denominational bible church that leans to the right but is balanced. Mainly baby boomers who grew up in exclusionists churches both mainline protestant and independent bible churches. I'm more interested in social justice than the majority of my peers. May God bless you for your provocative book. You will be in my prayers.
A: I think there are more and more people like you – for whom social justice is not fine print added to the “salvation contract,” but is part of the contract itself.
Subject: Hello Brian
Dear Brother McLaren,
We actually met a few years back and I reintroduced myself at Catalyst in Atlanta in 2004. I am a lay leader at x Church in x. I told x that you thought he was one of the funniest guys you have met, and he was surprised you remembered him actually. Just a few small items my brother:
#1 - I continually listen to the CD of the lab I attended at Catalyst in which you discussed the "100 inches of Rain". You have really stirred in me a deeper hunger to know more of whence we came, but also, where we are and where we are going! Excellent, excellent stuff!
#2 - I am in the middle of the book "A New Kind of Christian". This book resonates deeply with me. However, I am bouncing some of it off of my 22 and 24 year old sons to get their thoughts. It rings loud and clear for them and their friends, with respect to where they are right now spiritually, it is amazing.
#3 - Your comments on the Stone-Campbell churches is interesting. I am just recently diggin into the history of the Church of Christ movement (restoration). Believe it or not, x Church is a black sheep in that particular denomination. I think we consider ourselves however to be much more of [snip]
#4 - Hang tough bro.., you are being used in a mighty way and you are stirring a big pot that needs to be stirred! I think your stinkin brilliant in my humble opinion. Oh by the way.., your gonna LOVE being an empty nester, but it does take about 4-6 months to get used to no phone ringing! :-)
A: Thanks. Now that we’ve been empty nesters for about 6 months, I can concur: what a nice thing to have the phone not ring constantly!
Subject: FW: question
Brian,
After reading several of your books and also relating well with your past church history ( I was also reaised Plymouth Brethren) and also with your affliation with International Teams (yes, I was privileged to connect with them and went on a 2 year stint overseas - the hardest but best years of my life), I would like to ask a question with regarding the current and often divisive issue regarding the baptism of the spirit.
As being raised Plymouth Brethren - I would never ever think of mentioning those words in that order before. I only began to understand this as I travelled away from my roots toward other denomination and thoughts and experiences. While my past has great influence on me, I recognize that God's Spirit acan move in ways that I am not so accustomed to. I do not want to put four walls around God, yet as a pastor, I question the purpose and teaching of this "second filling/movement" (what ever you want to call it).
As we seek to be post-modern, seeker-sensitve in our approach, how does this teaching fit in to the whole realm of church life? Is there validity in such? There is a couple who would like to have their small group dialogue about this in the fall - this makes me feel very uncomfortable as our church, hadgone through turmoil over this issue and other issues two years ago. In fact, it was said that God's Spirit wasn't present because there were no speaking in tongues, falling down, etc ... At the end of it all, people were influenced and left the church. We have since reached and even surpassed those numbers and the stories that are coming out of our little gathering of people coming to faith is amazing.
I was wondering if you could share your perspective from your experience as pastor at Cedar Ridge with regard to this whole issue.
A: Thanks for your note. I address this a bit in A Generous Orthodoxy. I think that the Pentecostal movement arose in reaction to distortions in the Western Church. As is often the case in everything we humans do, sometimes we overreact against one excess (e.g. excessive rationalism) with another. At the same time, we sometimes carry baggage (e.g. the desire to create formulas for everything) that we should carry. So, I would affirm the desire of the Pentecostal movement to move away from rationalism, and be concerned about any tendency to create formulas for the Holy Spirit.
Dear Brian,
I am finally emailing you as I said I would. I pray the demonstrations on the injustices in Darfur are yielding the fruit of getting people's attention. You met x and me at the x Conference in x. I am the guy from a Mormon background who had you sign six of your books---thanks so very much for doing that!
There are just a couple of things I wanted to mention. I went to Bible College and to Seminary. Back in the early 1990s I came to grips with my orientation and "came out of the closet." My partner is from an American Baptist background and was a Southern Baptist music minister. I have served in the x and the x denominations. x and I have been together for almost two years.
x and I are trying to find our way back into the service God called us into as a gay couple. We love Jesus and try to serve him. We are both post-evangelicals. We realize that many people in the GLBT community have come from the evangelical community and are very opposed to ever reconsidering following the Lord. I can't say as though I blame them. I received horrible counseling from pastors about my orientation. That is another story for another time.
x and I initiated a book study group, based on your book "A Generous Orthodoxy." That group will become a new house church this fall, under our leadership. We will have worship on Sunday evening and a book study on Thursday evening, using "The Church on the Other Side." I want you to know that people are finding healing from the harshness of literalism and fundamentalism in your books.
I also want to thank you for eating at the same table with us and the Lesbian sister from x. Thank you for being no respecter of persons. If you ever pass through x, you are always welcome. We are hoping to see you x. If you have a contact person for that, please let us know. Thank you.
A: Thanks for your kind words. I remember what warm hospitality you showed me when I was in your city. I look forward to hearing about how God works through you in your new church. There is so much good work to be done, and I’m grateful you haven’t given up on your calling in spite of all the difficulties.
Subject: Dear Brian
Dear Brian
About a year ago, being the first non – white and youngest Dean/Lecturer in the history of the x College in South Africa, I had the privilege in prescribing one of your books “The Church on the other Side” as a text book on doing ministry in a Post- Modern context. Myself being a reflective practitioner, I have carried most of the insights you have written in your book in my inner being but I was too scared to declare it because of the theology of the status quo. Somehow, I realised that I was not alone in the transition zone. The Holy Spirit used your book by turning me loose, lifting me up and pushing me forward toward the other side. Today, I am no longer stuck in the transition zone but I am now moving toward the vision of the fusion of God, life and world orientations in partnership with the Holy Spirit, co-searching, co-exploring, co-examining and co-sounding the bottomless and hidden things of God (1Cor chapter 2). I am pioneering a new ministry movement known as “Umoya People Ministries”. Umoya is an African word that means “Spirit” in a number of African languages. I am doing this on a part-time basis while I am serving the people of South Africa as a public servant. I would like to become connected to your ministry network in some way or the other. I have just read something about the controversy that you have caused through your latest book. I have not yet read it but would love to do so. However, I want to encourage you with the words of the late South African theologian, David Bosch: “Mission is the church crossing frontiers, representing the kingdom of God”. Please remember as long as you keep on crossing you will be fine and accepted but the moment you start to cross frontiers the more controversial and unaccepted you will become. Let me share with you my latest discovery on my life’s journey and I know it will bless you.
“It is very dangerous to walk in the memories of others. I would say rather create your own. A memory in life ought to inspire new memories and if not, you will find yourself trapped in the memories of others” (Gideon Sauls).
For the sake of the emerging church movements
Keep on crossing frontiers!
Keep on creating new memories!
And keep on seeking the Holy Spirit incarnate!
A: I will be in your beautiful country in March 2006. I hope we will meet! Thanks for your kind words. I hope you will become a key participant in the growing networks in South Africa.
Subject: From the land of Megachurches and Self-Image...
Brian,
My wife and I just got back from a 15-day road trip in the Midwest and East Coast and we devoured the 3 trilogy books (she read, I drove). We loved them. They led to one conversation after another...must reads for all of those who are growing through evangelical adolescent detox like we are! The issues you boldly raise need to be raised in our community: a loving, gentle, thinking critique from within. We live in Southern Orange County, the backyard to many competing mega-churches and a secular population addicted to their own self-image. My wife and I cried a few days ago, together on the couch, as we explored the recent conversations we've had with dear friends and family who are committed evangelicals. In our world, the simple, shallow destination-when-you-die gospel dominates faith and ministry and a personal relationship with Jesus with good morals (don't drink, have pre-marital sex or cuss...and vote Republican!) is what 'it's all about'. It's very disheartening to see vocal Christian parents who have children that attend the school I teach at, demand that Latino students who struggle with the english language do not attend our school (they lower test scores and they have 'different values').
Brian, to make matters worse, we want to dialogue with our friends about the issues you raise in your books. We want to actively change the course of ministry and for people all around us to get a bigger picture of God. Unfortunately, a hand-ful of people have responded like this: 'McLaren, isn't he the head spokesman for the Emerging Church Movement' and they seem to cast you aside as another young, rebel type who wants to start another ?cool church. My wife says it best, "Why are people so 'mean' when they talk about McLaren?" The irony, of course, is that ALL of these people have not read your stuff. They work off assumptions and equate you with movements that they fear, disagree with and shun. It has caused me to adamently say emerging church 'movements', not one whole, united, cohesive unit. This is obvious to you, but we are learning. As my good friend Dale, a seminary student says, "I've visited every 'emerging church' in the greater Denver area and they are all cool mini-versions of the Mega-church they grew out of." Your work is so different from what we are experiencing in much of the 'emerging' movement.
Brian, thank you for leading with your head and your heart. Your risk has made a gigantic difference in our Faith and in our relationship. Your words are powerful and they cause us to think...to really think about this complex, non-dualistic world we live in. Just know that we are dedicated to being a part of the dialogue way out here in SoCal. We start seminary at Fuller in 2 months, so if you are ever out here, we'd love to drive you down to the coast and buy you a few fish tacos and a Sierra Nevada Microbrew (If NEO loves that Pete's Wicked so much, he'll/you'll love this stuff!).
A: I am so grateful for your note. And if people are characterizing me as “another young, rebel type” – we know they’ve got the “young” part wrong anyway! BTW – I think you’ll enjoy reading Ryan Bolger’s “Emerging Churches.” Maybe he’ll be one of your professors!
Subject: the nature of order
Brian-
I just finished A Generous Orthodoxy- excellent stuff! Wish I'd had the book five years ago. Parts of the book echo Christopher Alexander's The Nature of Order (which has resonated quite deeply with me). If you've never heard of him, Alexander is the architect who founded the Pattern Language movement (with the book A Pattern Language). His work is focused on emergent order- very powerful
A: Thanks! It really is an exciting time to be alive – with so many stimulating, creative books to read!
Subject: Help!
Background
I am an experienced teacher (34 years public school - 20 years Bible classes) and I have been challenged by the "30 somethings" in my church to bring them 12 lessons on the message from the Trilogy, beginning in September. I have read, re-read, and studied each and I am excited both that we have a very good nucleus of young adults who want to explore these ideas and that they have asked me to lead them in this.
Question
Has anyone produced a syllabus for such a study? Also, is there study material that has been produced for this series?
Reality
With such neat and novel ideas, and in that I yet processing much of these thoughts myself, I want to make certain that I presenting McLaren and not [myself].
A: Thanks! I’m terribly sorry I missed your deadline by months! The good news is that the trilogy is now available as a boxed set with a study guide. Maybe next September.