Part I of August Questions...
Subject: In response to the many responses to D.A. Carson's "Conversant"response to you...
Greetings, Brian.
My wife and I have long appreciated your work, and it pains me to see how many still do not. My question concerns epistomology: Professor Carson is half-right in saying that the chief issue between Emergents and those of his position is that of epistemology, or how we know what we know. Thereafter he goes on as if you were a disciple of Derrida. I studied communication as an undergrad, before a tour in seminary: I am as certain as a postmodernist can be that the "Third Postmodernism" you describe is not at all that of Derrida, but of Marshall McLuhan. It is one he warned us about for two decades before his death in 1980. It owes almost entirely to the shift of worldview entailed by the change from Print to Electronic Media as dominant medium of communication. Truth no longer takes the form of a reasoned argument, but of a cogent narrative supported by a well-lived life. (In a visualist, narrative world, we are the story we tell). Forgive a silly question, but why is this not evident to more people? Especially since this understanding makes the changes involved and the discussion thereof more intelligible, and explains why one cannot simply oppose the shift as a matter of intellectual fashion. Indeed it makes the nature and shape of the resulting changes all but predictable. (and you are correct, since the medium has not yet become what it will be, we have seen but little of its reshaping influence as yet). Why then have I seen almost no discussion of this? M. Rex Miller has written somewhat about it in his book The Millenium Matrix, which I have on order. I haven't seen McLuhan, Ong, or communication theory mentioned anywhere else in regard to the Emerging Church Conversation and/or postmodernism. It would seem to me a way to avoid a lot of unnecessary rhetoric about what we can and cannot know, and the fruitless angry responses of those whose paradigm has gone missing.
By the way, congratulations on at least one section of your book, A Generous Orthodoxy (which I am also waiting for delivery of, and so have yet to read). Professor Carson takes you to task for calling yourself sacramental for seeing God's sacramental presence in all of life. As a well and thoroughly steeped Charismatic/Contemplative Catholic (on indefinite loan to the Vineyard), may I say that you got the sacramental view ABSOLUTELY right! I was delighted to see you describe it so, and I recall that Dostoevsky wrote essays describing this same thing (you are in good company--The Catholic and Orthodox agree that this is the purpose of seven sacraments: to mark the seasons and rhythm of a believer's life, so that all of life resonates with God's presence). Got it in one.
A: Thanks for your encouragement. These days I tend to think that epistemology (knowledge) is less the issue than power. We can disagree on our theories of knowledge without much trouble, I think, but it’s how we believe knowledge is to be used that makes the difference. Thanks for bringing up McLuhan. As an old English major, I found his work brilliant and it had a significant influence on me back in college. My friend Shane Hipps has written a tremendous book applying McLuhan’s insights to faith and ministry today. I highly recommend it, as I do Rex Miller’s book which you also reference. It’s funny how non-Catholics (including me, I suppose!) feel qualified at times to speak for Catholics … I wrote what I did in AGO because of Flannery O’Conner and Walker Percy’s work, and I’m glad that you as a Catholic (on loan) feel I got it right.
Subject: A word of thanks
Just a quick note to say how grateful I am for your example to others. Your recent article in Next-Wave was a great encouragement. Several excerpts were blogged @ www.jay.clark.blogspot.com. I enjoyed your book, "More Ready Than You Realize" and am eager to read, "The Secret Message of Jesus" when it is released. Enjoy God's peace.
A: Thanks for your encouraging words. I’m so glad MRR was helpful to you, and I hope that SMJ will be a good read for you too.
Subject: Thanks, and a book recommendation
First off, as an ex-Catholic, ex-Baptist, ex-Pentecostal/Charismatic, ex- existential christian I want to thank you for assisting me in feeling sane again. While I can't claim to be under any of those flags now, they all remain an important part of who I am. Its nice to know what I once thought was a solitary journey into a desolate place is not solitary nor desolate. Enough with the rambling metaphors. :-)
Its been nice to follow the stream of literature that I've been introduced to through your NKOC books. Its allowed me to actually integrate my faith with my job as a probation officer/peace officer in a therapeutic court. As a recovering evangelical convert from Catholicism it has done me good to understand the importance of issues of social justice rather than only focusing on "Jesus and me."
I'm finishing reading a book that may be of interest to you. The Wisdom of Crowds, by James Surowiecki. While it has direct applicability for me as I work in a collaborative court, it also seems to offer insight on why and how the Emergent Church is actually emerging. Following is a quote from page 160 of the book. It explains the World Health Organization's analysis of SARS.
"Instead, as the WHO's own account of the search for the virus argues, it was the group of labs that ?'collectively...discovered' the coronavirus. Working on their own, any one of those labs might very well have taken months or years to isolate the virus. Together it took them just a matter of weeks.
"The intriguing thing about the success of the laboratories' collaboration is that no one, strictly speaking, was in charge of it. Although the WHO orchestrated the creation of the network of labs, there was no one at the top dictating what different labs would do, what viruses or sample they would work on, or how information would be exchanged. The labs agreed that they would share all the relevant data they had, and they agreed to talk every morning, but other than that it was really up to them to make the collaboration work."
Sorry for the waste time if you've already come across the book. Regardless, may God bless you for the ?wonderful work you continue to do. :)
A: Thanks so much. I hadn’t seen the quote or read the book, so this is of real interest to me, both in my work with emergent and in my understanding of the kingdom of God as a network of relationships, and a network of networks.
Subject: Wondered if you'd read Gilead?
by Marilynne Robinson. I read it after reading "A New Kind of Christian", and thought (perhaps naively) it quite Postmodern in re-asserting the limitations of reason in matters of faith, and the proper role of intellectual humility when faced with the Numinous.
A fabulous novel, but especially uplifting for thinking Christians. I'm about to begin "The Death of Adam", also by Robinson.
Also curious if you'd read Talbott's "The Inescapable Love of God".
I've come across all these books (including yours) after a decade and a half in the wilderness of despair. In the words of the old 60's song: "There's something happenin' here..."
A: Thanks! I haven’t read any of these books, and always appreciate good recommendations.
Subject: Generous Orthodoxy as a newcomers course?
Dear Brian,
We are looking in post post-modern Toronto, Ontario to either replace or supplement our Alpha courses with something that better fits our cultural mileau. Alpha is very modernist in its theological method. The first question we almost always get asked in the group discussions is
“What about other religions?” which is only minimally addressed through the course. Also listening to Nicky for 45 minutes per night is entertaining but I am sure there is a better way to learn.
“Generous Orthodoxy” may fit the bill. Is this book being used elsewhere as a starters course in Christianity? If so where so I could confer and if not how might you suggest how we could get started?
Secondly are there any plans to have GO in paperback? – That would also help us.
A: Thanks for writing. As you’ve probably heard – AGO is now in paperback and has a study guide included. I’m happy for the book to be used in any legal way – and if you need other legal permissions, please contact Zondervan. You may be interested in contacting Lambrick Park Church in Victoria, BC. They used my book “Finding Faith” to create something very similar to what you’re describing. Remember – ideas aren’t copyrighted, only arrangements of words. So if any of the ideas in my books can be of help to your people, put them in your own words and use them freely!
Subject: thanks and tip
Dear Brian,
you said somewhere on your website that you do eventually read everything that is sent in. I don't really expect an answer. Just wanted you to know that "A New Kind of Christian" was an eye-opener for me, it gave me hope for America as well as English language vocabulary to express what I had been learning and experiencing for several years on the mission field in Germany (youth ministry in Berlin). Thanks. I look forward to reading future books.
I just read your interview in Relevant Network Magazine. You talk about learning to retell the story. In college and grad school I studied German Language and Lit - and my interest in literature hasn't faded. Through a social theory course, I got into science fiction and on to Ursula LeGuin as an author, and then eventually to her Earthsea series. I don't know if you are familiar with it, but the latest works in particular are about learning to retell the story. The books I read over and over are those that in some way express Truth, that restore my soul. LeGuinn's books to this for me as do the fictional works of Tolkien and Lewis.
A: Thanks for your note. So far, I’ve been able to read everything that comes in (often quite late, though!), but I am reaching my capacity and may not always be able to do this. Yes, I’ve read at least one of LeGuin’s works, and enjoyed it very much. I enjoy science fiction quite a bit. Several years ago, I read a dozen or so of Orson Scott Card’s books, which have quite a few very stimulating features.
Subject: Generous Orthodoxy
Brian,
I have to admit I feel a little dorky writting this, but I wanted to tell you that A Generous Orthodoxy is changing my life!! I'm a youth pastor in northern Virginia, and my faith has been in a state of flux for......well for a long time! Your book has put words to many thoughts of mine, and I'm thankful for it. I'm on the chapter of why you're Methodist, and it's amazing - so many of your thoughts parallel what I've been going through the past few years. I started in a Methodist church, in college I attended a Presbyterian church, then my girlfriend (now wife) and I started attending a Southern Baptist church - where I stayed for years, and for the last year and a half we've been in a non-denominational church planted by a moderate Baptist church. Needless to say, I don't have much denominational loyalty, but I value each one for so many reasons, and it's refreshing to read your book and be challenged to learn from other denominations that I've never been a part of. Thanks. Please keep writing!
A: Thanks! Please don’t feel dorky for sending along encouragement. That’s very kind, and I appreciate it.
Subject: Greetings
Brian,
I just wanted to drop you a note to let you know I appreciated meeting you on Sunday. I've been able to take a little time in between my summer and fall classes to read A Generous Orthodoxy and I'm loving the challenge that comes with introducing the Kingdom of God to the people around me. I'm still not very good at it, but I'd guess most of us feel like we're really not worthy, God just calls us anyway. Thanks for your writing and your brief moment to say "Hi."
A: Yes … the message of the kingdom of God is good news indeed! Thanks for writing.
Subject: SF Bay Area
I realize this isn't a question for posting on your website, but I thought maybe you could help us out anyway...
Do you have a list of emergent churches in the SF Bay area? We're new in this area....previously involved with Ecclesia (Chris Seay) in Houston.
I'm actively looking on the web for ideas, trying to find one close to us.
Thanks in advance for your help, if you are able...
A: I wish I could. We need to get some kind of listing up at emergentvillage.com.
Subject: Community of Christ
Dear Mr. McLaren:
I was raised in a very tradionalist Greek Orthodox jurisdiction, but left nearly 10 years ago. I have since become a member of the Community of Christ (a.k.a, Reorganised Church of Jesus Christ Latter-Day Saints). As you may be aware, the externals of our Church polity will look very similar to that of the Utah LDS, but our theology would be much more akin to that of many mainline denominations (i.e., United Methodist). At any rate, I'm in the midst of "a Generous Orthodoxy" and I'm so pleased to finally read someone writing about the emergence of the Christian Way that is generous, focused on a deep and abiding relationship with Jesus Christ, deeply discipleship, active compassion for those poor and marginalised, and a concern for peace in the world...and in our souls. At any rate, here is our website to familiarise yourself with us: http://www.cofchrist.org/
So, my primary question is centered on how you see the Community of Christ plays into a Generous Orthodoxy, and to the descriptions you've giving to this new emergence? Thank you very much for such an encouraging book, and for your courage to speak openly.
A: Thanks for your note. One of my high school friends was part of the Community of Christ (although it still went by its previous name). I haven’t had time to learn more about your group, but the kindness of your note makes me want to learn. One thing I always try to remember: no group has a completely fixed identity. Over time, groups that some people might have considered unorthodox may move toward orthodoxy, and some groups that may have been ungenerous may move toward generosity. And vice versa. God bless you in Utah!
Subject: community group materials
Good Morning Brian,
I have an interesting question for you. I belonged to a strictly conservative southern Baptist church for most of my life, but over the past four to five years, things just weren't making sense to me. We split away and joined another church that is very more dynamic, contemporary (although I don't like that word) and closer to what I would refer to as an emergent church, even though yes we are still affiliated with the Southern Baptist Convention. We do not meet in our church on Sunday evenings, but in community groups, split up into smaller groups of 10-15, in homes. I "lead" one of these groups, and we have been using some community group study material prepared by Saddleback Church and Rick Warren. It is interesting, but I have lately been teaching out of some much more "postmodern" thinking material, i.e. "Enter the Worship Circle" by Ben Pasley and "Wrestling With God" by Rick Diamond…
Do you, or Cedar Ridge Community Church have any type of study material for classroom/community group type of study? If so, I would be very interested in receiving it and purchasing it. Should you have any questions, please let me know at anytime. Thank you so much for your wonderful work, it encompasses so much of how I have been feeling for 20 years.
A: Thanks for your note. Some of my books are being re-released with study guides, and the NKOC trilogy is now available as a boxed set with study guides. You will find some CRCC materials available at crcc.org, and sermons and group questions are usually available there too. I also hope to add more resources at this site as time goes on. So glad the books have been helpful!
Subject: Songwriter Response
Hi,
My name is X (as my email address points out so well). I am 23, live in south x, heading to seminary soon, working as a part time youth pastor, lead worship often and am constantly writing music. I really appreciated your article written to songwriters which I got off of your website. I don't know if you actually read these or not but I am going to write this email under the assumption you read your emails. I have long enjoyed your writings, beginning with Finding Faith a few years ago. I am not too 'into' the whole emergent movement it seems to already have become a monster of its own, with it's marketability taking over everything else. However, most of your writing always seems to talk about the questions that jump around in my head. Lately, I haven't even been able to play a "worship" song because I'm so sick of them. Anyways to make a long story short I just wanted to send you a few songs I wrote to hopefully encourage you that some of us have been trying to change the landscape of songwriting in the church.
[snip]
Thanks for all your writings, keep it going.
A: Wow! I loved your songs. I removed them from this posting thinking you might not wanted to have them available, out of copyright concerns. But I want you to know that they are some of the best lyrics for Christian worship music I’ve read in a long time! I hope you continue your songwriting, and that these songs will become widely available. By the way, if they do, then it will seem to some people like you’ve become a “marketing monster!”
Subject: Help me
My situation I'm sure is not to uncommon. And I'm dreadfully sorry if you've answered this in one of your books. But how do I explain to someone my beliefs as a postmodern Christian? It seemed to take you a few books to do so. Is there a condensed way to put it? I've been thinking and I just don't know how. For a little background I'm from Mississippi, I go to a fairly contemporary church called x. But it seems like all my friends are so very conservative and don't like the ideas I put forth (I've so far only put forth a bit, about there being no "absolute truth". I did it similar to the way Neo did it in A New Kind of Christian) and I've gotten some negative feedback. Please help me. If you're too busy just point me to someone who's not. Thank you for you time
A: Thanks for your note. I have the same struggle you do! I think sometimes it’s best just not to bother people who aren’t interested. But we all need to find some kindred spirits – so you might be able to find or form a cohort via emergentvillage.com, or link to some of the discussion boards for online conversation. Thanks for writing!
Subject: Honesty
Dear Mr. McLaren, A NEW KIND OF CHRISTIAN HUH? The Bible is meant to be read-NOT READ INTO!!!!! Did you forget that Christ died for your sins? Dude, you seriously need a wake-up call. You have also been quoted saying that you have read the Bible and have not seen its meaning. There is a very good reason for that. Not all who read the Bible understand it. It is the heart in which you approach it. I respect that you think we need a new involvment-but Brian, you need to be careful. Satan's greatest trick is to convince the world that he doesn't exist. If you read Ezekiel, Daniel, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and Revelations you will understand this very clear. Do you know that you could ultimately be introducing the Anti-Christ in your way of teaching? You have seemed to have forgotten some important issues here. First, we are to trust no one, not even ourselves lest we be deceived.(for we are spirit also, and born in sin)We are to trust in Christ only. 2 Timothy 4:2-5(Ever watch TBN and all those clowns who claim that Jesus will appear at their Crusades?) Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, and exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. FOR TIME WILL COME WHEN THEY WILL NOT ENDURE SOUND DOCTRINE, BUT ACCORDING TO THEIR OWN DESIRES, BECAUSE THEY HAVE ITCHING EARS, THEY WILL HEAP UP FOR THEMSELVES TEACHERS; AND THEY WILL TURN THEIR EARS AWAY FROM THE TRUTH, AND BE TURNED ASIDE TO FABLES. BUT YOU BE WATCHFUL IN ALL THINGS, ENDURE AFFLICTIONS, DO THE WORK OF AN EVANGELIST, FULFILL YOUR MINISTRY. Like it or not Hos, there is no other way to Heaven except through Jesus Christ. He said I am the way, the truth, and the Life-No one gets to the Father but through me. You can argue it, you can curse it, you can deny it, you can even denounce it, but sorry-you can not change it. Christ said, "There is no greater gift than a man who will die for his friends". All I have to say to you is this-YOU THINK, THEREFORE YOU KNOW, AND THAT IS WHAT YOU GET FOR THINKING!!!!!!!!!! YOU ARE IN ERROR MY BROTHER. PLEASE HEAR ME, DON'T COMPROMISE ON ANYTHING!!! IF YOU CAN'T UNDERSTAND IT, KEEP GOING UNTIL YOU DO. ASK AND YOU SHALL RECEIVE, SEEK AND YE SHALL FIND, KNOCK AND IT SHALL BE OPENED UNTO YOU. Please just think about what you are doing and saying to all these people. The Shepard is responsible for the sheep. What kinds of destruction are you laying up for yourself? You must repent(stop all together) and ask for forgiveness. You know, those who will take the mark of the beast will only be protocol dude. They already have with their hearts. Is the money really worth it to you? Or do you really not care about anyone else but yourself and what is in it for you? As far as any kind of argument you could give on this-Don't be stupid-unto every man is given a measure of faith so I know you KNOW THAT WHAT YOU ARE DOING IS WRONG-if you can argue that, you have some serious honesty issues. A person with nothing to hide, hides nothing.
A: I appreciate the fact that you’re trying to help me, although I don’t get the feeling from your note that you’ve actually read any of my books, and are simply responding from hearsay, rumors, etc. I wonder if you’d be willing to ask yourself a few questions: Do you think this kind of thing is convincing? Or helpful? Would you want to be “helped” in this way? Do you find it at all unfair to make an accusation and then say if the accused doesn’t agree, he has “serious honesty issues?” There are many no doubt sincere Christians like yourself who seem to feel that you must insult or intimidate in order to be persuasive; that’s not the kind of Christian I want to be. In fact, that’s the kind of attitude and behavior that helped inspire the title you reacted against in your first sentence. Oh well. Thanks again for caring enough to try to help me. I would gently suggest that you will be more effective in this sort of thing in the future if you reflect on 2 Timothy 2.
Subject: A note of thanks to Brian
Dear Brian
I’m a x-year old South African pastor in the post-apartheid Dutch Reformed Church (in a combined ministry with the Presbyterian Church) in a small village in the Eastern Cape. I’ve only been in the ministry x months, and over the last three months I’ve read four of your books: A Generous Orthodoxy and the NKOC trilogy. I would like to thank you for opening my mind and heart to a world I’d sensed existed, but could not be found via “conventional” Christian thinking.
I feel strengthened in my faith, encouraged to do God’s work, and I look forward to possibly joining one of your seminars in the US in the near future.
This is the kind of theology I would like to be busy with all of my life.
A: Thanks for your note. I’ll be in your beautiful area in March. I hope we can meet then. You may be interested in finding some friends there via amahoro.info.
Subject: what do you disagree with about pentecostal doctrine?
Brian,
I really want to thank you for all that you are doing. I thoroughly enjoyed A Generous Orthodoxy, and I look forward to reading A New Kind of Christian and the rest of the trilogy. I was reading a blog you had written on emergentvillage.com, where you said that you had been exposed to the charismatic movement, but you could never fully accept traditional pentecostal doctrine, and I was curious as to what you disagreed with. I'm an intern at an Assemblies of God church in Washington, and I completely agree with the AG statements of faith, and I also like what the emergent conversation is saying, so if you could clarify what you disagree with, that would be great. Thanks for all that you are doing.
A: Thanks for your note. My differences with traditional Pentecostal doctrine are very small, in the big scheme of things, so I wouldn’t want to undermine your confidence in your church’s statements of faith. The important thing, I’d say, is to be aware that not everyone has exactly the same experience of the Holy Spirit’s filling, and that among the evidences of the Spirit’s presence in our lives, none is greater than love.
Subject: responding to the modern mindset
Brian,
I visited your church a couple weeks ago while in Annapolis for a wedding. Thanks for being so approachable and willing to hang out a few moments after the gathering. I'm the guy from Denver who is a part of x church.
A question I would like to see you address a bit more at length involves dialoging with the modern mindset. My wife and I are originally from Indiana and we both feel as if God may be drawing us back to the midwest after I finish here at Denver Seminary. The predominant mindset in the midwest and especially rural midwest seems very modern/ultra conservative/ even fundamentalist/ even proud fundamentalist. I began engaging in your conversations a little more than two years ago and I cheered at your courage and fresh "generous" thinking. After coming out of an uncomfortable x mentality, "More Ready than You Realize" was such fresh air. But the difficulty I have with some modern conservatives is their unwillingness to engage or be more considerate with the changing landscape of Christianity. How do we communicate the fact that a fresh perspective on the kingdom of God isn't just a passing fad, but that we need a fresh "generous" approach to hermeneutics. How do we communicate that this approach isn't compromising, it's humble. This is fresh with me after conversations with my parents and in laws. Do you have any articles or resources that talk more about engaging the modern/ultra conservative mindset? Thanks, man. Keep up the good work. I thank God for your faith and courage!
A: Thanks for your note. I hope my upcoming book, Secret Message of Jesus, will be of some help in this regard. But I haven’t had a lot of success in convincing people who aren’t ready to change their thinking. I think patience and gentleness may be the most important things to keep in mind!
Subject: Audio Versions
Hey! I’ve loved the trilogy. I would love to be able to listen to them as well. Are there any plans to turn the books into Audio Books?
A: I hope that they’ll become available at some point, but so far, I haven’t heard of plans in this regard. You might contact Jossey-Bass with this suggestion.
Subject: Post-Colonialism
Dear Brian,
You're probably not going to remember me but I met you last week in New York City. I was the doctoral student working on the history of Asian migrations to the Pacific Northwest and an elder at x Church in New York City. I was part of the group that met with you prior to your public talk. I appreciated our discussion time and really appreciate the work that evangelicals like yourself, Jim Wallis, and others are doing to represent an alternative voice to the Religious Right.
At any rate, I was excited, in particular, by your assertation that the real conversation is not about modernity vs. post-modernism but about post-colonialism. I don't want to misrepresent you but I think you said that the real challenge for the Church is understanding how a North European Christain faith reconciled (and justified) slavery, colonialism, genocide, and a host of other atrocities in the name of God for the last four or five centuries. While there are hints of this in your books - you certainly make connections between faith and social justice - I don't necessarily see it as a central thought in your writings.
And I'm not alone. I have friends who have read your books and are surprised to hear me tell them about your thoughts on post-colonialism. They primarily associate your writings with ?the Church and making it relevant in a post-modern culture, and moreover, they see you (perhaps incorrectly) as someone who embraces post-modernism. While I think there is some value in debating modernity vs. post-modernism, I think it also tends to obscure some of the pressing issues facing the Church today: global economic inequality, racial injustice, environmental degradation, war and genocide, and etc. Much of which, as you pointed out, are the legacies of a history of white supremacy and Euro-American colonialism. So I guess I'm wondering if an emphasis on post-colonialism in your future writings and talks would be helpful in moving the converation beyond modernity vs. post-modernism. Perhaps a new book or article is in order?
A: Yes, you have understood my thinking exactly. I will have a chapter on this subject in a new book I’m contributing to, which will include chapters by several authors. It will be published by Baker, and the title will have the word “manifesto” in it, I believe. This theme also comes up in my book A Generous Orthodoxy and The Secret Message of Jesus.
Subject: thankyou
I don't know if you read these or have a chimp you employ to do so but I would like to tell you that I just finished "a Generous Orthodoxy". I have one thing to say to you over and over. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU.
This was the first of your works that I have read and I plan to read it again and probably a few more times after that (as well as your other works). Your book was perfect timing for me. I'm twenty-two, married to a worship leader, and an intelectual (unfortunatly). Church has always been a sore spot with me for a myriad of reasons. My beliefs always seem to go against the grain in church even if they are in agreement with Christ. I would like to read a book about how a Christian can survive in church...or how a Christian can teach the message of Christ to fellow christians... maybe you can make a manual for us ;). I loved when you talked about consumerism (I never hear anything about this from the pulpit for some reason...but alot about tithing and sowing and reaping...odd isn't it.) O and the chapter about being Green...exceptional. You talked about going beyond just recyceling but truth is most people don't even do that!
I could go on and on how great your book is but that probably gets old...I quess it's better than hate mail. So Mr. McLaren (or chimp) I say again Thank You.
A: Thanks. I really appreciate your encouragement. And so does my inner chimp!
Subject: Adding my voice to the Chorus
I just finished reading Brian's "a Generous Orthodoxy" and almost wept with a sense of found community, even if is intellectual rather than "present." I grew up fundamentalist in the Bible Belt and experienced many of the Jesus's you list in your book. I have recently become a practicing Catholic because it has the depth and mystery to feel both orthodox and generous in a way I have never felt before. Your book organized and articulated so much of what I have only been perceiving at the edge of my awareness for years now; I am grateful. However, it also underscores how alone one can feel in this polarized world trying to be both orthodox and generous. There are many on both "sides" willing to welcome you into either rigid, un-generous orthodoxy (politically and theologically) or into an insipid, un-romantic generosity; but reject you the minute you embrace or reflect the tension, the adventure of living in both places. It feels right and exciting, but lonely, at least where I live. (x Colorado) I look forward to networking with some of the web-sites you have listed and have signed up for emergentvillage.com. God bless you and keep you!!
A: Thanks. As you can imagine, this is great encouragement for a writer.
Subject: GO epilogue
Hi!
I caught a reference by McLaren about writing an epilogue to Generous Orthodoxy. If I've already bought the book, is it possible to obtain a copy of that epilogue without buying a second copy of the book? Although I'd happily do that and give the first copy to a friend, that's a little beyond my graduate school budget. Any suggestions?
A: Let me see if that would be possible. Good question! If so, I’ll post it here on the site.
Subject: Thank you and please...
Dear Brian
Thank you so much for writing the trilogy. Granted, my life would be simpler if I just kept on doing the same old same old with my congregation, but I can't do that anymore. I believe God wants me to change. In the words of one of the desert fathers I'm trying to teach my mouth to speak the word of my heart. That is what I perceive your writing to be doing. Thank you.
Do you have any plans to travel to the UK? Or are recordings (audio or visual) available from any of your conferences? I would like to encourage some colleagues to interact with what you are saying and some people prefer to engage with the spoken rather than written word.
A: Yes – I’ll be there in May 06. And emergent-uk has conference dvd’s available.
Subject: Adventures in Missing the Point
Dear Brian,
I am currently reading this book and am very much enthralled and challenged. I was, however, disappointed in your response to Tony’s essay on ‘Homosexuality’ - only from the view that your response seemed ambiguous and vague as to your convictions. Do you have any indepth writings on the subject? I would be very much interested in your scriptural interpretation of this very important, painful and controversial subject.
I am grateful for your ministry and hope to visit your Church community someday soon.
A: No, I haven’t published anything more detailed than this. Most people want a simple, black-and-white response to this issue. I don’t believe such a response is true or right. It would be like going to a doctor and saying, “I have a lump in my neck. I want a clear and unambiguous answer as to what it is.” A good doctor will say, “I don’t know. I need to do some tests on it. Each case is different.”
Subject: Thanks
Hi Brian,
Greetings in the name of King Jesus.
As you know, I had to leave class early a few weeks ago (Orthodoxy, Catholicity and Missionality at MHGS). I wasn't able to thank you personally for the privilege of sitting in your class. It was an enriching and rewarding experience. …
Reading your 3-part this-is-my-story response to critics is what prompted this email. I'm sorry to hear that there has been so much flak. Insofar as criticism is generated by a concern for truth and is colored by grace -- great. But when it assumes the worst it is painful and unfair. We Christians are not very good at speaking the truth in love.
I look forward to reading your next book. My own appreciation of the significance of the kingdom of God in Christian life and ministry has grown over the last ten years, and there's so much more I need to learn.
May God continue to give you much joy, strength, wisdom and fruit in serving him. He is good!
A: Thanks for your kind words. God is good indeed!
Subject: You're in or you're out mentality?
Dear Brian:
I am a minister who honestly respects your views and takes what you say to heart, I believe what you have to say needs to be heard! I do however hesitate or feel it is imperative to raise issues with those I respect when they say something that seems a little to close to the edge. or example, what did you mean in the July/August 05 article of Outreach Magazine when you said "we do not think in those terms" of you are in or you are out? Is there not in your view things that we need to do in response to what God has done for us. Are there not clear indicators or steps that we must take or evidence that must be present in our lives that show we are involved with God in the process of his changing us into his image? Are you saying we can not look back into our past and see when it is that the change began. Didn't the Apostles and Jesus give us some indicator of things (i.e. repent, confess, be baptized) we must do in response to the cross? Not as formal causes or "grounds of" salvation but as a part of the process of that salvation? Are you saying that you believe we can have no indication of when that change began?
A: Clearly, as you say, some people can point to a date and time of their conversion, as Paul could in the New Testament. Others, like Peter for example, would have to tell a rather complex story – about meeting Jesus and following him, of realizing he was the Christ, of denying him and being restored, of receiving the Spirit in some way as described in John 20, of Pentecost and receiving the Spirit, or his fuller understanding of the gospel that came in Acts 10-11, etc. So, when I meet someone, I don’t immediately think “he’s in,” or “she’s out.” I try to understand where the Holy Spirit is at work in the person’s life and help them take the next step toward Christ. Remember – in the Scriptures, no one ever raised their hand at the end of an evangelistic service, walked forward down an aisle to “Just as I am,” signed a “contact card,” prayed “the sinners prayer” from the back of a booklet, etc. etc. That’s not to say these things are wrong – but they are techniques that have developed for a certain context. I believe the context is changing and so our techniques will change. In fact – just as you said – I think we need to return to calling people to repentance (which means rethinking the direction of their lives), calling them to commitment to follow Jesus, and demonstrating that commitment through baptism. This by the way is in part a response to the cross, in my thinking, but also a response to the resurrection, the incarnation, and the teaching and life of our Lord. I hope that’s helpful clarification.
Subject: good stuff
No question Brian just a good old Australian thank you for your honesty and openness to engage the questions of now and the kingdom of God. I have enjoyed your books and questions to yourself. I especially loved that chat with the brothers in the emergent series on post modern culture. I work in an urban church surrounded by housing projects and middle class people from all nations, particularly islanders and middle easterners and now a lot of Asian peoples. I love the gospel and I love how the lord gets his job done. Please keep up the grappling act of writing, missoining and serving. This is the only context to comment from I think. PhD’s these days should be in formed by “people hearted disciples” and not so much the ivory tower of academics. And I do love academics. But only in practice. Any way God bless you. I will keep an eye out for the next instalment and will gobble it with glee and put to task the thoughts in some ones life and my own.
Ps love to see you up here some day. I say up here and not “down under”, because once you see, you will get the real view. Ha.
A: Amen! I’ll be there in February. Hope to meet you!
Subject: The 'trilogy'
The journey of my dearest friends and christian comunity could hardly have been more clearly and intelligently described by the three 'NKOC' books. Especially the first has been very helpful for giving to more conservative-ly churched family members to help them understand where we are these days and reassurance that we've not lost the plot!
As a 'professional' christian, 20+ years in youth mission work, I sometimes found myself exclaiming out loud as Brian wrote things (about sharing faith - the limited ways we read the Bible & then communicate an invitation to get on board, the nature of Jesus' salvation...) that I had trained others in, almost identically. Spooky, in a good way (-:
Creationism vs Darwinianism is not such an overt battleground for belief in Australia,.. nevertheless, to me the second book explored new language and perspective on what it means to be a God-person,.. serving God's agenda for the world. The environment is a key concern for many people here, but rarely linked to worship or following Jesus (eg grief over sin is usually personal & moral, not collective or activist etc). Kerry was utterly real to me, and her responses authentic. May there be many like her, who find themselves in the story because someone tells is to her from the best vantage point. It also certainly opened up what we understand the good news IS and is FOR & this is very much at issue. The Bible is rich with threads of narrative tailored for connecting people to God,.. we have a very poor heritage of reducing the spectrum to a few colors.. so screening out possible connections for people. A terrible dis-grace.
The third book took us back into organised church where so many seem stuck at 'saved FROM sin' (and eventual hell) that they never get to the everyday issue of saved FOR what.. kind of transformative life to be lived? So the third book was very exciting to me.. probably pushing me to think the most but not troubled. I am glad to have my sense of God enlarged some more! The deep church stuff made me smile with recognition.
For me, Brian is a kindred, and I'm profoundly encouraged to keep going in the direction we are, knowing others are finding a way, too. Thanks for going the extra miles to write it down.
A: Thanks for your encouragement. I hope to meet you when I’m down under in Feb. 06. I’ll also be back in 07.
Subject: Transcendence
Dear Brian,
I have just finished reading ANKOC, TSWFOI,TLWATWAT, and A Generous Orthodoxy. These books have been fascinating and thought provoking. They contain a lot of ideas which I have struggled with in recent years. Since reading these books, I have one central question though. If we put the argument about a literal resurrection on the line that Neo drew, with the liberals at the point saying there was no literal resurrection, and the conservatives at the point saying there was, and God up above outside of this argument, where does that leave us? Do we mythologize the story of Jesus' resurrection? I have friends who read Marcus Borg, Joseph Campbell and other authors who think this way. Who think it doesn't matter whether it happened literally as long as we understand it spiritually.
Thank you for your work. It is so validating to hear of others who are thinking about some of the same things I have.
A: As you know from reading my books, I believe in the literal resurrection. To me, it is the ultimate “sign and wonder.”
Subject: Deconstructing Heaven
Brian,
In "The Last Word..." you spend significant time deconstructing hell, with a chapter title of the same. What about deconstructing the idea of heaven? There are passages that are referred to in the book that indicate the idea (if I am reading correctly) that at times at least, if not almost always, Jesus uses "hell" language as a motive for certain behavior. Do you think some of the images of heaven are being used the same way? (for example, Matthew 25 and the sheep and the goats). Thanks for your thoughts. Please know this is a question from one who has been blessed IMMENSELY by your ministry, thoughts, questions, books, preaching, etc....in fact, reading "A New Kind" was the beginning of changing my whole outlook on life! Thank you.
A: So much important theological and biblical work is being done on these questions. Can I recommend Andrew Perriman’s new book “The Coming of the Son of Man?” I think it deals with a lot of the Biblical passages in a truly fascinating way that may prove convincing to more and more people. If he is right, many of the passages we apply to heaven, as hell, are talking about something else – but in a way, that leaves the remaining verses that give us assurance of life with Christ even more clear and powerful.
Subject: Ever thought of writing an expository commentary of the Bible
Hi Brian,
I have read and loved all your books. I believe they are a gift from God. God used NKOC to literally change my heart and life and ministry. My only question is, have you ever considered doing an expository commentary on the Bible, or a book of the Bible, say Revelation or Romans or Luke or something? I find that, while I love your ideas and they are very thought provoking, some of them seem inconsistent with parts of the Bible. For me to fully embrace any theological view, it has to pass the "Bible test." I would love to see how you interpret some passages because that is what turns the lights on for me, and I believe for many, many others as well. This is the third time I have written to ask this question over the past 6 months. Please post this one with a reply. Pretty please. Thanks Brian, and may Almighty God bless and protect you!
A: Sorry – I got behind in my answers. I may do something like this as a podcast at some point, but I doubt it will be as a book, at least not any time soon. Thanks for your persistence!
Subject: Thank You
Dear Mr. McLaren,
My name is x and I am a youth director at the x Church in x (about an hour east of x). I just finished reading your book A Generous Orthodoxy. I have to say thank you. Not for saying exactly what I believe but for giving me a chance to see the writing of some who has seen the same things I have seen, who has seen more than what I have seen and has seen things I disagree with. What a rich journey you lay out in your book.
I belive I have experienced, as a person of faith, a student and a youth pastor the very ideas that you have layet out put, into practice quite often. I see them at camps constantly. Campfier circles (when done correctly) have the chance to bring the popular kid and the outcast, the beauty and the geek, the adult and the camper together in a way that is beautiful to behold. It is a time where God is not just present (God is present everywhere) but for the first time for many people seen. It's not the devotion, it's not the songs or traditions (although they seerver a purpose) that shows this, but the chance for people to come together and honestly share through words, song, prayer and embrace. It is beautiful and transends all notions of left and right, liberal and conservative..etc etc.
The other place I experienced this was during a Holocaust studies trip that was interfaith and was called the March for Hope and Rememberance. It brought together many relgions and college students from all over the word to do a month of study and visitis of the concentration camps in Polland. We visited a death cam called Majdonek (I apologize now if that is not the proper spelling) which I can quite honestly say was my first real taste of Hell. While here I consider myself greatly blessed to be asked to be part of the leadership of a multi-fiath worship service. In the middle of that service I saw God. It did not matter that I was worshipping and meditating with those called Islamic, or Jewish, or Bhuddist or even athesist and agnostic. What mattered is that we were honest, open, and sharing our hearts with each other. it was beautiful, transcendent and a whole bunch of other theological words...but in actuality it was God.
Your book, in my mind has put into writing some of the very feelings and thoughts I have been trying to explain why I try to describe the theology of camp and even that study trip. Thank you for your efforts and your ability to put down in words what I know so many people who have seen what I have seen, feel and strive for in their faith life. I hope my story gives you encouragement that your vision is not that far off from actually being acheived.
A: Thanks. I am, like you, a huge fan of Christian camping. I worked for many summers as a camp counselor for kids and youth. I hope that more and more people will see what you have said here. Amen!
Subject: Welcome to the doghouse.......
it is a good place to be! There are lots of beautiful people in it! One of my delightfully subversive friends who is much smarter than me suggested I check out what sort of person you are. So I waded through a bunch of websites. I cannot help being intrigued by any person with the "right" color and nationality [AngloAmerican] who doesn`t march to the culturally correct drummer! One article I read about you said that you don`t fit anybody`s mold, neither do I or any of my friends. I no longer call myself a christian and have been an official unchurchian for two years now. But I have been a follower of Creator Jesus for 39 years and will continue to be one. Sadly, most majority [AngloAmerican] church folks confuse being a Jesus follower with being a member of a majority church denomination. I survived 39 years of abuse in churches by Creator`s grace alone and in spite of myself, but I will no longer subject myself to it. Long story..............The culturally correct/angloized gospel has devastated peoples who are an "other" and therefore considered inferior or subhuman - I have experienced too much of it`s effects on my own family and friends. You are are guy who thinks outside of the culturally correct box, a rare trait in an Anglo but one of immense value! People like you represent hope because they are living proof that things could be different from what they are! What I find so irresistibly attractive about you is your consistantly kind way of responding to your oponents and critics, especially the christian types! You refuse to get down to anyone`s mean and ugly level! I read through all your answers to the questions people send you and found you a living example of how to treat one`s fellow human beings in the Spirit of Creator Jesus! You are open to the challenges of different viewpoints, including those you disagree with, refuse to attack or tear anyone down [which is so common in majority church] and have kind and encouraging words for everyone - you validate their Creator- given dignity and equal value as a human being! WOW! This shows that disagreeing and having opposing viewpoints is not the problem, but HOW we [mis]handle it is!
A: Thanks for your kind words. I hope that as people read your words here, they will get a sense of the pain that has been caused for too many people by a certain kind of Christianity that, as you say, disregards “the other.”
Subject: note of encouragment
Hey, I just wanted to send my thanks to Brian for his courage and insight in writing the article about the Iraq war. I am also an evangelical christian who struggles at times with how to be patriotic and proper in my views about what we are doing over there. I am a Vietnam era veteran and just appreciate so much the things Brian shared and the way it was said. God bless you all.
A: Many thanks. I feel much better if there is respectful dialogue on this subject, and not just dominating monologue (from either side). I was just talking to an Iraqi fellow the other day in Europe and I asked him what he thought about the war. He said that in his opinion, Saddam was even worse than most people say, and that if Saddam had passed leadership to his sons, things would have been even worse. Whether the invasion was justified or not, we can all be glad that Saddam is out, and we can seek to move forward seeking peace and justice. If the U.S. feels “successful” in this war, it might be encouraged to repeat the process in other places, which to me sounds very scary. Whatever the outcome, with you I pray for peace and justice.
Subject: No Subject
Brian,
I have read More Ready Than You Realize and A Generous Orthodoxy. Both books have helped me clarify the Emerging Church movement, conversation, etc. and have affirmed many of the frustrations I have experienced as a pastor for many years. The concept that we have been satisfied with our own sub-culture while neglecting the culture as a whole has weighed heavy on me since I heard Francis Schaeffer speak many years ago. I have struggled to move the churches I have pastored into a "purpose-driven" mindset but even then found believers more interested in "fellowship" than in interaction with non-Christians.
I met you recently at the Pastors Conference at x in Kentucky and enjoyed our time of lunch and conversation at the Mexican restaurant. I also stopped in for one of your services in June as my family made our way to NYC for vacation. Thank you for speaking with me. Your services were appealing and sparked a new desire in me to experience a worship revival in our own "revivalist" church tradition. I was intrigued by the time set aside for personal worship and amazed by the response of those in the congregation. I felt at ease to spend time alone with the Lord in the middle of a large crowd. The corporate worship and personal interaction created a true sense of the Divine Presence.
This leads me to my question for you. Does your worship form ever become too familiar, dull and habitual so that you lose the sense of Divine ?Presence When I returned from vacation and a mission trip this summer, I informed our staff that we were going to try a new way of worship. We eased into it with a communion service and followed it up the next week with another communion service and additional stations for personal worship (as Kimball demonstrates in his book Emerging Worship).
The response was overwhelming. We had people interact in worship that had never shown evidence of the Spirit's presence in their lives. I saw people confessing sins, families serving communion to each other, individuals crying and weeping in the pew, fervent prayer being offered, one profession of faith in Christ and a family join the church. That was the first week.
The second week was even more intense. We used a format similar to yours where preaching comes early in the service and time is allowed for personal response to God's presence in the worship time. I have not had one criticism or negative comment. Most of the comments are about how wonderful the service was and sometimes people are so choked up when they leave that they cannot even talk. They just stand there and weep or give me a bear hug. I have had people ask me if we are going to continue this because they are so moved by the worship time. One lady was grateful for a confession station where she could confess some sins that had been troubling her. We had a healing time this past Sunday and anointed people with oil that wanted to be healed. I couldn't believe how many came forward, even visitors.
The great thing about all of this is that it is not just the "choir-preacher-song-leader pony show" any more. The deacons are active ?n the worship times filling in at various stations for ministry. Lay people are involved in the readings, etc. And now no one can complain about not "being fed" or not liking the "music" because they are beginning to realize that worship is not about the preacher and music, it is about the time one spends in the presence of God.
Thanks Brian. As an aside, I have had to defend you quite a lot recently. Most of the critics haven't read your books or met you personally. Most in my tradition have only read Al Mohler's article and criticism or heard TV preacher Ronnie Floyd warn people about Emergent. He was echoing Mohler. One pastor saw the church's former youth pastor in a local pub drinking with former members of the pastor’s congregation and stated publicly that that's what you get when you follow the Emerging Church movement. I quickly called his hand on that one and reminded him that Emergent has a lot of voices and the vices of his former youth pastor probably have little to do with Emergent.
I for one am excited again. I have been so depressed by Churchianity and the constant demand to conform to a Southern cultural lifestyle and religion that have little to do with Christ and spirtituality. I was close to quitting or starting something new. But through your books and your personal kindness and time I have seen a new way for the Lord to bring revival and renewal to His church. Continue to stand strong and, as a fellow former English teacher, let me encourage you to keep on writing.
Thank you, Brian. Please give my regards to x who have two adopted boys and were so kind to show my family around the buildings and grounds at Cedar Ridge. God bless you richly.
A: Thanks so much. I hope that your experience with innovating in your worship service will be an inspiration to many people who visit this site. As with anything, people can get familiar with a new way of doing things so that it seems normal after a while. But the idea of creating “sacred space” where people can connect with God and with one another is, to me, an ever-new and ever-rich experience.
Someday, I think and hope that Dr. Mohler and others like him will realize that I am not an enemy but a brother in the Lord and a colleague in ministry. We have our differences, I’m sure, but having Christ in common is far more significant. Someone sent me a quote the other day from Dr. Mohler that I very much agreed with, where he said that we should never be happy about going to war. I believe he quoted Augustine in this regard. This, to me, is an important rejection of a “holy war” ideology that I hear from some quarters of the Religious Right. I applaud Dr. Mohler for taking this stance. May God bless us all, sinners that we are, and beloved as we are.
Subject: Almost finished with A New Kind of Christian
Brian,
I am almost finished with your book A New Kind of Christian. When I first started reading, I found myself being moved from intrigue to almost anger at parts (especially at the conversation while NEO and Dan were hiking). I felt that Dan's character was weak and was willing to listen to NEO without any question or critical thought. NEO came across as someone that used philosophy and intellect to portray an elitist spiritually superior guru. I was beginning to think that I made a mistake by buying the book because it seemed to be embracing and agreeing with relativism and univeralism.
However, I kept reading. I have found that the conversation is dealing with some things that I have been thinking of lately. In particular, the formulas and rituals that we have pushed on people as Christianity. I recently read A Scandalous Freedom by Steve Brown (btw, I heard about your book on his ETC show), and that book has changed my life. Now, as I am finishing your book, it is having a similar impact on me. I think that your book presents a lot of questions that need to be discussed. I am not sure that I understand or agree with all of it, but it is certainly a breath of fresh air that I don't have to have all the answers or be a fixer of those "pagans" around me. Friendship evangelism has always bothered me. One thing people in my church (including myself) are guilty of is that we almost shun people when they leave our church to go elsewhere. It is done under the guise of "preserving the church community". The thing is that I have never felt good about that. I didn't see Jesus shunning people at all. He was very critical of the religious elite of that day. I think that those people would look a lot like us today. Jesus always accepted sinners.
Lately, I have been feeling drawn to find the truth and smash my idea of what being a Christian is. My biggest struggle is accepting others from different religions. I have a friend that is Unitarian. She is probably a more moral person that I am, but denies the deity of Christ so, I am afraid that she is in danger of hell. Then again, I think that the lady that Jesus saved from being stoned to death for adultry didn't really acknowledge that Jesus is God. So while I don't have the answer, I know what my teaching tells me, but it doesn't seem to sit well with my understanding of how Jesus dealt with sinners.
Sorry to be so long winded. Not many of my Christian friends could handle a conversation like this. I appreciate the book.
A: Thanks for your note. A number of people have had a similar reaction to Dan’s character – that he seems too weak and submissive. But I began the book with Dan in spiritual crisis, and when people are in crisis, they are eager for hope, which Dan felt in Neo. Perhaps people wish that Dan were more like themselves and less in spiritual crisis; then he would fight back harder and put up more resistance to Neo’s ideas. That could be a good book to write too. But I was writing for the people in spiritual crisis – and there are so many of them. For them, the Dan character resonates. Perhaps for those who aren’t in such spiritual pain the Dan character can at least help them understand people for whom the status quo isn’t working.
Subject: Boy, I am really thinking now!
Dear Brian,
I know your busy and whether you will have time to read this or not I don't know, but I try anyway in hopes that you will. I kind of associated with your story when you had a desire to leave the ministry. Well, for about a year now, my feelings are some what similar. I just do not have the desire to go to church anymore and still don't. You would think I have AADD, since my mind usually is everywhere except in church about 60 percent of the time. I feel kind of bad about it, but at the same time I don't.
I do have my own ministry of helping churches start their own media ministries. God has given me a vision and the first thing I feel he wants me to do is start a Christian Internet Radio Station, a very progressive, open and affirming one at that. The final stage will be a cable TV channel. Whether all this has any bearing on not wanting to go to church anymore I have no idea.
I was talking to one of my God son's the other day, he is an evangelist, he said I should read some of your books. So I bought a few. Praise God I did because you have no idea what they have done for me. In reading, I believe that I was able to figure out some things as to maybe why I feel the way I do.
…
First, with all that is going on today, I am so sick and tired of the fundamentalist Pharisee's. They scare me a bit and I think they are dangerous. I see no love from them, but only a lust for power, control and money. As far as I am concerned we Christians do not have any right to force our religious beliefs on anyone. After all Jesus gave us a choice and God gave us free will. We should do the same, but apparently those fundamentalists don't think so. So I try and keep my involvement in my church limited. I wish not to do any more than I have to. A few months ago I decided that I will no longer have anything to do with the Christian religion or any religion for that matter. Now I consider myself a spiritual Christian and fully embrace and support Christian spirituality. I do my best to live according to what Jesus taught and your books have helped me in learning to respect other peoples beliefs. I have definitely changed in certain ways and feel that instead of trying to convince people of what I believe, just share my experiences with them and let the Holy Spirit do the rest of the work. Frankly, I feel all I need to do is just plant the seed and let the Holy Spirit water it.
Secondly, I want more. I want to be taken to a higher level because I so bored where I am at spiritually. I know there's more, but I just need to find it.
Thanks to your books and a few by Joyce Meyer I have really begun to think. I feel like I am slowly being taken higher in my spiritual walk right now and I don't want it to stop. Joyce Meyer's books have helped me out a lot emotionally and your books have got me thinking on a differently level regarding scripture. Things I have never thought about before or ways in even looking at Scripture. I really like Neo in your book "The Story We Find Ourselves In." "A New Kind of Christian" is fantastic. Some of the paragraphs in your books I had to read at least three times to try and understand what you were saying. I still don't understand all of it and don't believe I agree with everything, but nobody agrees totally with anybody anyway. So I don't worry about that and am just grateful to have (to be continued..)