Questions from November - Part I
November 2005
Subject: Question
I am much impressed by, and hopefully more informed by, A Generous Orthodoxy. But these old eyes have trouble with the type font in the main text, and even more so in the footnotes.
Are any of Mr. McLaren’s books available in larger fonts? Thank you,
A: Good news! The new softcover edition has been improved because of suggestions like yours. A number of my Zondervan books are being republished with new design. And A Generous Orthodoxy is also available now as an audio book – for those who can’t or don’t enjoy reading.
Subject: FW: Brian McLaren
I have read several of Brians books now and find his experience to be so similar to mine. Can you tell me where he grew up and what church/denomination he was raised in?
A: I grew up in upstate New York, Illinois, and (mostly) Maryland. My family was part of the Christian (Plymouth) Brethren – the group known as the “open assemblies.” I am very grateful for this rich heritage of faith.
Subject:
Brian,
I have spent the last year or so reading the trilogy, generous orthodoxy, and every web-site or article I could get my hand on, but I never felt I had much to contribute to you or your life. That all changed last Wednesday night.
My wife and I went to see the musical “We Will Rock You” based on the music of Queen and written by Ben Elton. I was supremely entertained. But as my wife would gladly tell you, I can’t watch a movie without watching for its commentary on the world or the church, and my corresponding commentary.
The story, in brief, is set in the distant future in which all individual expression is outlawed (see Queen’s song, One Vision). I couldn’t help but hear a commentary on the Church. I heard a cry for a church that is open to anyone and all views, a church that is described well in Generous Orthodoxy. It created an incredible emotional victory (for a pastor that desperately wants to become emergent, but is quite certain that he is not nearly there) when the cast sang “We Are the Champions” at the finale.
If you ever get a chance to watch this great stroll through some near-perfect 70’s rock, don’t pass it by.
PS I love this quote from HollywoodJesus.com, I want to have it tattooed on my palm if not emblazoned on the door to my church.
?Everyone welcome! ?Hindus, Jews, Christians, Wiccans, Muslims, New Agers, Atheists, Agnostics, Gay, Straight. Come in. Enjoy. Post your views!
A: Thanks! I never knew that “We Are The Champions” had that story behind it. I’ll check it out first chance I get. Again, thanks!
Subject: are you familiar with Robert Shaw (conductor, not actor)?
Mr. McLaren:
As a theologian and musician, are you aware of the writings of the (late, great) conductor Robert Shaw? He wrote and lectured a good amount on worship, especially "effective" worship. I think he would contribute a lot to the conversation.
PS = Just googling him will reveal some great essays. Also, THE ROBERT SHAW READER includes some of his essays and lectures on the topic of spirituality and worship.
A: No – I love his work, but have never explored his writings. I will do so, and I’m sure your suggestions will help many of our readers. His chorale’s rendering of “O Magnum Mysterium” (the Lauridsen version – that may be misspelled?) is one of my favorite musical pieces in the universe. There’s nothing quite like playing that piece at full volume!
Subject: thanks
Mr. McLaren:
Thanks so much for being honest enough to confront your feelings and then share them. When my father gave me your books to read, I was (along with my wife) about a heartbeat away from divorcing the church completely, and leaving my faith along with it.
I suppose it is a testament to my "modern" upbringing that I felt I needed an authoritative "permission slip" to allow me progress in my faith. That is to say, I wonder why it took one of your books to let me feel like I wasn't an outcast in my feelings on faith and church.
Please continue to share. Actually, please shout from the rooftops. While I appreciate the need for sensitivity and understanding, I feel that the modern evangelical church is actually, in my opinion, quite dangerous. My wife and I not only disagree with many of its ideas, we also feel personally damaged by them. Thank you for showing us there are alternatives for those of us who need them.
A: Thanks for your encouragement, and for taking the time to write. Many people see me as a trouble-maker and disturber of the peace, but they haven’t met people like you and your wife, and they don’t understand why for so many of us the old approaches aren’t working – and worse, they’re damaging people and driving them from the faith.
Subject: ENCOURAGEMENT!
Dear Pastor/Author/Theologian/Brother-in-Peaceful-Arms Brian McLaren ~~ I am so blessed and thankful for the work that you are doing. I met you at Seattle Pacific University (briefly) this month and didn’t want to take too much of your time, but I so want to encourage you and thank you again for taking this stand. You know we’re not alone. You know that better than I!
I have wrestled with this theology and all that it implies for decades. I have pleaded with God and hammered on the stone and taken the blows of rejection. I have given up, been lost and found and rescued by our glorious Savior, listened to the call and answered with the observation that God’s people will not receive a revolutionary message from a woman and why should they, since the Bible we all lean to has directed that women should not stir up discord, but should keep silence rather than wrangle in the meeting place. The Lord replied that He would raise up a man and you are it! I know that you are not alone, but you are the one that corresponds to all that we (the Lord and I) have labored for over these many long, strange years.
You are delivering all of what I have pleaded with God to release in our generation and I am so blessed to see this day!!! Since I know a lot about the criticism that you must face for this stand, I am committing to pray for you daily. Please keep me on whatever distribution lists are useful to that kind of support effort.
A: Thanks so much. As I often say (and mean!), I need your prayers more than I can know! I hope your letter will encourage others as it has me.
Subject: A Generous ORthodoxy!
Brian, I just finished reading "A Generous Orthodoxy" and i wanted to say thanks for writing a book that gives voice to many things i've pondered over the years. As a Southern Baptist, this is not the direction that most of our churches are going, but it's where God has been preparing me to go for many years. Thanks for some guidance on the journey; and thanks for references to Bruce Cockburn. He has been my favorite singer/songwriter for about 20 years now, since a friend introduced me to his music in college. In fact, when i asked my wife to marry me, i used his song, "One of the best ones" as a backdrop to the proposal. Yea, i know. THat is weird. THanks again.
A: Thanks so much. Great to hear from another Cockburn fan. Sometimes, I feel so incredibly lucky just to be alive at the same time as Cockburn, Dylan, The Daily Show, and other simple pleasures in life. People often complain about how bad these times are (usually pining for better days gone by), but sometimes I think we’re just oblivious to how many blessings we swim in!
Subject: Interfaith Dialogue
Brian,
My name is X, and I'm a moderator for an online interfaith dialogue group called Community of Reconciliation. I've recently been talking about your book A Generous Orthodoxy, which I feel is one of the most important books of our time. This is especially true for those of us Christians who wish to incarnate the Christian faith to people of non-Christian religions. Some of the people in the Community are going to purchase the book, and I'm sure it will be the center of some conversations for a long time.
The main reason I'm writing to you is to ask if you would like to join our online dialogue. We would welcome your comments, experience, and participation.
Community of Reconciliation is made up of mostly practitioners of pagan and earth-based religions, and are wonderful people with big hearts and open minds. Many of the people in the Community are ex-Christians for a variety of reasons, mostly because of harrowing and ungenerous church experiences from their pasts. But they know that there are many thoughtful and generous Christians in our world, and they are very open to what generous Christians have to say.
If you are moved by the Spirit to join in the conversation, our web address is:
groups.yahoo.com/groups/communityofreconcilliation (this is not a misspelling)
Please contact me if you have any questions or comments about the Community.
A: I’ve included the contact information so others can check in on your work. I’m sorry I missed being part of your discussions. As you can imagine, I can’t engage in all the dialogue I wish I could. Thanks for your encouragement.
Subject: Tell me what happens when ..
Hi Brian,
First, thanks for your Web site and its information. I have some hope that my healing from the "literal Word of God" part of my life is real and authentic.
Second, tell me what happens when I follow my heart toward becoming an ordained Christian minister in a particular denomination, begin to actively take part in the preparatory work before going in front of a committee of people who will make a decision on whether I am fit to continue in the candidacy process, speak my truth about my life (recovery from addictive-compulsive behaviors) and am found to be not worthy of becoming an ordained Christian minister because of a failed psychological evaluation?
That's a long question. My heart has wanted to become involved with pastoral care ... helping those within the Christian faith who have had their share of pastors and well-meaning church friends to give them guidance and support, only to have the knife in the back later on. Well, c'mon now Brian ... if grace is grace, then where the hell is it in the Christianity of today? Especially if there is evidence of a man or woman doing their healing work in their lives, who wants to follow "the call" and gets the big F-U from the church denomination.
Maybe you can't answer this question directly. That's OK.
Maybe you can take part of it and just respond to it.
I just believe that my faith in God and Jesus of Nazareth is important to me. I've read numerous translations of the Scriptures (you've got me beat, pal!). The ones that have deeper meanings in my life today are the TNIV (yeah, I ordered a free copy from IBS) and The Message (I only have the NT/Psalms version in paperback). I've read the NIV (still good), NASB (the "ONLY real Bible anyone needs"), the New Oxford Annotated Bible (with the always-popular Apocrypha) and the New Jerusalem Bible (popular with Catholics).
So I do have a background in Scriptures. I've also been reading John Spong's work recently, as well as "If Grace Is True" and other uplifting books.
OK ... I'm stopping here. I apologize for my long note. I just can't believe that the God of my understanding, a loving, compassionate, grace-filled God, would not want a ragamuffin like me in the Christian church.
It sucks.
Thanks Brian, God bless your ministry and take care.
A: Thanks for your note. You’re right – some folk wouldn’t want you around. It’s not that you have problems – they have problems too, just different ones. It’s the kind of problems you have that they can’t accept. The good news is that nobody can keep you from serving God and loving your neighbors … and as you continue to do that, you may find a community of Christians who would gladly welcome you into their leadership training track. I hope that will be the case!
Subject: A New Kind of Christian (trilogy) - paperback edition, please
Hi Brian,
Thank you for writing the trilogy. The first two books have helped to explain away the many doubts I have had.
I really hope that you/your publisher would be able to print them in paperback form. I am from Malaysia, and due to the exchange rate, your books (like many others) are horribly expensive. Paperback editions would be great.
Thank you once again.
Have a great day,
A: Thanks for your suggestion. If you know a Malaysian publisher, there’s a chance they could get the rights for publication from Jossey-Bass. By the way – I hope to be in Malaysia later this year. Check out amahoro.info for specifics of a gathering in Kuala Lumpur.
Subject: Poem
Dear Pastor McLaren,
Attached is a poem I wrote last summer after reading The Story We Find Ourselves In. (I have also read the first and last books of the trilogy.) Just in case you aren't familiar with poems written for two voices, the idea is that the two sides of the poem represent two points of view in the dialogue. These poems are meant to be read aloud with each point of view being read as written with each side taking turns; the parts on the same line are meant to be read in unison. So, in this poem the part on the right-hand side is read by the traditional, conventional voice; the part on the left is read by the view I gleaned from your book. The words in the middle unify the poem and also allow us to spell out the word "creation" by using the first letter of each word.
I do hope I haven't misrepresented your message. And I also hope you enjoy the poem.
A: Thanks so much. The Story We Find Ourselves In is definitely not my best or fastest selling book, but it inspires so much art! I really appreciated you sending your poem. I wish I could put together all the paintings, music, poetry, and other art I’ve received in response to the book. This vision of the Biblical story is truly inspiring to me, and I’m glad it was to you as well.
Subject: my question and viewpoint
Brian,
?Your comment that we need to change our way of thinking about theology is interesting as our understanding of God is found within scripture. If the word of God is like a two-edged sword that penetrates right through the whole person why change? Are we not becoming the change agent by adopting your practices and taken that role and right of God??? I only act as a messenger not as the agent of change, if we manipulate this message for cultural reasons is that not perverting the scriptures??? If Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and if God's word remains the same then surely it should transcend cultures, and social-mindsets of the day? Surely if I am in a particular culture it would only be a loving thing to do to know the cultural norms and stick by them so that I might be given room to preach the Gospel (1 Cor 8), I think what you are trying to do the Bible already addresses. If I preach but do not have love then I am nothing more than a clanging gong (1 Cor 13). Adopting your practices are therefore unnecessary as the Bible addresses this point and asserts that love is the key. Feel free to answer my questions and critique my views.
Kind Regards,
Your Brother in Christ
A: Thanks for your thoughts. It sounds like you’re completely satisfied with your current way of seeing things, so I really don’t have anything to offer you. Please feel free to ignore my work. May God bless you in your life of faith.
Subject: Re: Seth material and other religions
Brian,
I have read a number of your books and articles and am very appreciative of your work. Thankyou!
The reason for this email is that I am in the middle of reading through the second book of your trilogy (The Story We Find Ourselves In) and am also involved in a "conversation" with a non-Christian friend who has recently given me some Seth Material ("Seth Talks" as channeled through Jane Roberts.) I am presuming you will be aware of this material as it seems to have contributed to the foundation of the New Age movement as we know it today.
Anyway, my question relates to other religions/philosophies and is this: How do you view the influence of Satan and the demonic realm with regard to the establishment and perpetuation of certain belief systems such as that expounded through the Seth material? Is the information that Jane Roberts received the result of a deceiving spirit and if not how else can it be explained? In your book I am reading at the moment you seem to allude to the idea that other religions can be incorporated into the grand story of God's creation as an expression of people's creative search for meaning in life. Do you see other religions as a mixture of people's creative search for meaning and deceptive spirit's influence?
Sorry, a few questions in one but I hope you get the gist of where I am coming from. I know you are a very busy person but hope you can find the time to comment on my question.
A: Thanks for your question. I’m sorry, I’m not familiar with Jane Roberts or the Seth material you refer to. I’d only say that if we did a better job of living the message of Jesus, I think our light would shine brighter than that of those who claim to be channeling this or that spirit or sage or spiritual master. That’s where I try to put my focus – on living the message of Jesus and following in his path.
Subject: intelligent evolution
Don’t know how widely this article was distributed. We read it in the Nov. 22 Montreal Gazette. Somehow the words of this “intellectual giant” sound strangely familiar --
INTELLIGENT FORCE USED EVOLUTION,?NOBELIST SAYS
Jenny Jackson
CanWest News Service
Tuesday, November 22, 2005
A Nobel laureate in physics said he believes some intelligent force probably created the universe but he (or it) used evolution to do it.
Charles Townes, an intellectual giant in both the sciences and humanities, told religious scholars at a conference in Philadelphia that "life probably started once, but not much more than once."
Townes, 89, is one of the few men in the world who could step into the fray between creationists and scientists, and command everyone's attention: He won the Nobel Prize in 1964 for his work on the laser and, this year, was awarded the Templeton Prize for his contributions in uniting science and faith. The prize is the largest cash honour in the world, worth $1.4 million. It was established 33 years ago by the British philanthropist Sir John Templeton as a sort of "spiritual Nobel." Other Templeton laureates include Alexandre Solzhenitsyn, Billy Graham and Mother Teresa.
The professor, who lives in Berkeley, Calif., with Frances, his wife of 63 years, is also an Officer of the French Legion of Honour, and holds the Niels Bohr International Gold Medal as well as nearly 125 other awards and honorary degrees.
Townes didn't place himself in the middle between creationists and scientists, so much as above them.
Townes outlined his own position that science can give us a reasonably reliable explanation of the world around us, but, as we keep asking questions, we keep getting surprising new answers, especially in the astonishing field of quantum physics.
However, he said, "intelligent design has been so badly used" by some groups promoting their own religious agendas.
There are fundamentalists at both ends of the spectrum - hard-nosed scientists at one end, religious literalists at the other - and neither is adding much to the debate.
Why should science and faith be at odds at all? If religion sets out to understand the purpose and meaning of our universe - the big "why" - and science asks the big "how," surely the two must be related.
"If the universe has purpose and meaning, this must be reflected in its structure and functioning, and hence in science," Townes said when he accepted the Templeton prize in May.
The sense of wonder and mystery that we normally associate with faith, is, for Townes, just as alive in science. He recalled how he struggled with the problem of the laser. One day, sitting on a park bench, the answer suddenly came to him, in a moment that he says can only be described as a revelation.
A: Thanks for this fascinating insight into the mind of a brilliant scientist. It reminds me of Neo’s “above the line” position in NKOC.
Subject: Help!
My name is X ?I'm a freshman at X University (a very very conservative university ?if you didn't know) and I've just finished A New Kind of Christian and its ?two sequals. These books really freaked me out at first, but I've come to ?believe a lot of what you said is true. But I'm wondering, what next?? ?How do I help people see the truth I've come to find without becoming a ?total outcast. I mean, I'm already on people's nerves for being a ?Democrat,but now they're going to write me off as a theological liberal as ?well as a social and economic one. ?The only people who understand me are my pastor and my church's intern (she ?attended Kyle Lake's church in Waco while she was at seminary there). ?However, my pastor really couldn't say half of the stuff he truly believes ?without getting fired immediately. He is slowly but surely easing us into ?the emergent church status, but it'll take forever. (Like 15 years at this ?rate). ?So back to my question, what do I do? I'm really lonely for someone my age ?who understands me, who thinks the same way I do. How do I bring this up ?without driving people away? And also, what other books and authors do you ?recommend to help me sort this stuff out? ?Well, thank you very much for writing what you did, and I hope that you ?continue to bless people the way you have blessed me.
A: Great question, and thanks for writing. Here’s a suggestion: why don’t you try to hook up with some folks through starting a cohort via emergentvillage.com? I’d suggest you get together with some kindred spirits and create a “safe place” for conversation and friendship. Then, you could invite others into that space. I don’t recommend you try to push any of these ideas on anyone. A more indirect approach would be better – maybe saying to a friend, “I just read a really interesting book. It was about a different way of looking at the Christian faith …” If they show interest, share a copy with them and maybe you can talk about it. If they show no interest, talk about sports or something they’d enjoy … You’re already in trouble for being a Democrat – I don’t want you to be completely ostracized socially!
Subject: Your Books/Your Message
Hi Brian,
I sincerely doubt that this e-mail will find its way to you, but I sit here and construct it nonetheless. I am a minister--and as such, the director of a campus ministry in Western X. I have read several of your books—along with various interviews. Your influence upon the evangelical church scene tires me. I say it tires me because you have done such a great job debunking the very thing that I work so hard to propagate on our college campuses: Truth. Please forgive me (sincerely) if I sound crass, but I am simply and utterly perplexed at the tendency of so many evangelicals to elevate you to a voice of authority in Christendom. Actually, it doesn’t surprise me---it just perplexes me. Most people would not go to their car mechanic to have a brain tumor removed, but so many people will go to a man who has no theological training for a dictation on what their theology should look like (I use the term “theology” loosely). And so now I find myself not only having to make a case for antithesis on our university campuses, but I also find myself having to make a case for it among my peers---peers who have somewhat bought into your rhetoric.
Like it or not Brian, you propagate an apologetic. Your apologetic is in defense of postmodernism (I am stressing the “ism” because I agree completely with what Chuck Colson said in his reply to your reply). What you don’t seem to understand Brian is that antithesis is necessary for reason---and reason is necessary for Christian conversion. You are debunking antithesis and ultimately by so doing, you are relegating reason to ambiguity. Newsflash Brian: Christianity stands ALONE on the basis of antithesis. Without it, historic Christianity is meaningless. God exists in contrast to his non-(antithetical) not existing. Without antithesis and reason we are reduced to what your books are essentially about: conflicting and irrational opinions.
It is so obvious that your current presuppositions about needed changes within Christendom are a result of your inability to rationalize your resented and former Plymouth Brethren ties. Don’t say you don’t resent them, because you do---it is subtly hidden all throughout your writings. Anyone who has taken Psychology 101 can figure out why you write what you do. The D.A. Carsons, Michael Hortons, and Chuck Colsons of the world are right to come against your movement. I know you’re not fond of that word, but you will soon see that is what the Emergent Church is---a movement. You will see that, when in a few years, your books are relegated to the bargain bin with the Prayer of Jabez. You are not helping the Christian cause---you are hindering it.
You talk about humility and being flawed: if you were truly humble you would go and take a couple of hermeneutics classes at a viable seminary. If you were truly humble you would genuinely listen to the MANY theologians who are coming out against your writings---and not just posting their replies on your web site as if you are some noble night in a jolting contest. An honorary Doctorate of Ministry is not a real Doctorate Brian. You are academically trained in English and yet you allow people to view you as an authority on Christianity, history, and philosophy. That’s not humility---its arrogance. Just because you claim to not be an expert—or claim to not be a theologian, does not make you right in allowing others to view you as an authority on a subject.
Francis Schaeffer (whose apologetic you say we need to do away with), rightly said, “They have no antithesis between right and wrong; therefore there can be no such thing as true moral guilt; therefore justification as a radically changed relationship with God can have no meaning; therefore no one is finally condemned. On the basis of their system, this is a perfectly consistent and necessary position to hold. Universalism is naturally related to what their system is.” Schaeffer is describing you Mr. McLaren. You have followed your ideology out to its furthest degree and now you are arriving at this:
“I must add, though, that I don't believe making disciples must equal making adherents to the Christian religion. It may be advisable in many circumstances to help people become followers of Jesus and remain within their Buddhist, Hindu, or Jewish contexts. This will be hard, you say, and I agree. But frankly, it's not at all easy to be a follower of Jesus in many 'Christian' religious contexts, either.”
Inclusivism and Universalism are unavoidable when one obliterates antithesis and reason. They are also unavoidable when one never talks about personal sin and the need for atonement---something else you have begun to completely and utterly redefine by doing something that you do so well: walking up to the line and then stopping—you never cross the line—but nonetheless, many of us can read between the lines Brian. It’s the ones that can’t read between the lines that get duped by your nonsense.
Sincerely,
A: You certainly have expressed yourself very clearly. I hope you feel better! Seriously, you have misstated my views on many levels. Since you really care about antithesis and truth, I would think you would want to more accurately understand and express a brother’s viewpoint. You say I say things that I never say, and you say I deny things I clearly affirm in my writings. Please continue to oppose my work if you feel you must, but it would be good, since we both believe in a God of truth and goodness, for you to seek to understand someone more accurately before you try to discredit them. You and I probably agree on a lot more than you realize! By the way, I am very open about my credentials, and I hope that my lack of credentials will make it easy for my ideas to be disregarded. That way, if they do carry weight, it will be on their own merit, not on my credentials.
One other thing. You said, “Newsflash Brian: Christianity stands ALONE on the basis of antithesis.” I agree with you that antithesis is important. (I never deny this anywhere! Wherever did you get the idea that I would reject the basic laws of logic? Why try to write in a reasonable way if I reject what you say I reject?) But I can’t help but remember that Jesus said, “Let your light shine before men and they will see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.” He said, “By their fruits you will know them.” And he said, “By this all men will know … that you love one another.” (By the way, Francis Schaeffer, whose work helped me greatly, wrote a beautiful book on this – the Mark of the Christian.) So, I would say that logical argument definitely has its place. But without love, it is nothing. So Christianity should stand not on antithesis alone, I would say, but also on the living testimony of a loving community of people who live by Jesus’ words and follow his example (including in their proclamation of truth) by doing good works. I think I’ve got a lot of Bible backing me up on that!
The fact that you wrote suggests to me that you are open to dialogue, so I hope you will not just discredit my response based on my lack of the credentials you have confidence in. And I’m sorry that you feel I’m undermining your work. May God bless you in all your labors for truth and love in Christ.
Subject: Paul, Evolution, Death, and Resurrection
Hi Brian,
I've been tremendously encouraged and emboldened by your books. The reading and discussions I've participated in the last few years have brought about extensive changes in my faith life. I consider myself a Christian, and find that I agree with most of what you have written.
But there's one area that's troubling me, and I can't seem to find any resources to continue my search. It has to do with the evolution of the human species, which I believe occurred over hundreds of thousands of years, which obviously implies that humans and their ancestors were born, lived, and died, just like all other species.
How do we as Christians take that central idea of death being a natural part of life and evolution seriously, and at the same time take seriously the apostle Paul's (mistaken?) idea that death entered the world with Adam's sin, and that death is an enemy to be defeated, and will be defeated when we are resurrected in the "age to come" (as N. T. Wright calls it)? I think it's pretty clear that Paul is referring to bodily death (not some vague spiritual break from God) because he contrasts that death with the bodily resurrection of Christ, which will defeat that death.
Do we perhaps still believe in Christ's bodily resurrection, but relativize Paul's theological understanding of that resurrection?
My liberal brothers and sisters at the church I currently attend aren't any help because they don't believe in the bodily resurrection, and my evangelical friends and family can't help either. I asked Sylvia Keesmaat because of her familiarity with Paul and she has a similar faith background as mine, and she responded that she had the same question but no answer yet.
So I thought maybe you might have some ideas, or could point me in some new directions. I believe this question is pretty important for bridging the intellectual gap between Christianity and those who dismiss it because of the perception that Christianity doesn't take science seriously.
I know you can't answer a lot of your emails, but I'll send this out anyway, knowing you will eventually read it, and perhaps prod your own thinking along these lines.
Thanks for what you're doing. A New Kind of Christian has been pivotal in my life, so affirming.
P.S. I guess this all assumes that you believe that humans are a result of the evolutionary process, and that Christ rose bodily from the grave. If my assumptions are wrong, I'd be curious to know that, at least.
A: Great question, but I’m sure I can’t do justice to it here. As in so many issues these days, the problem isn’t the Bible; it’s the assumptions we bring to the Bible about how it is supposed to be interpreted. We make demands of the Biblical writers that we don’t make of any other writers, and I’m not sure our demands are sensible or fair at all.
As an analogy, I often refer to the Wizard of Oz in my teaching. Does this mean that I believe Dorothy was a historical figure? No. It means that I accept the story of Oz as being part of our culture, and that I can use it to illustrate truth or provide analogies to truth. In the next paragraph, I may similarly refer to a story about Abraham Lincoln. I’m using his story for a similar rhetorical purpose, even though I don’t put his story on the same level as Dorothy’s or the Tin Man’s. I hope that makes some sense. I’m writing on a red-eye transatlantic flight, so may have stopped making sense a few minutes ago!
Subject:
Brian,
I wanted to pause for a moment, in an otherwise busy day, and let you know that your writings have impacted me a great deal. I teach religion and psychology at a Christian University in X as well as serving as the school’s Director of X. I know of no other writings that have so profoundly influenced my young spiritual pilgrims. You raise a myriad of questions and supply some generous paths by which these students can embrace their God. Thank you… thank you for comforting the afflicted and afflicting the comfortable.
My students have even started a book club called, The Books We Find Ourselves In… They are currently journeying through a Generous Orthodoxy together. It brings a fullness to their worldview that they so desperately needed. A friend of mine has made the following statement, “The height of arrogance is to say the we hold the absolute truth; we should be acknowledging instead that the Absolute Truth has a hold of us.” Your books, articles and teachings remind me of this each and every day. May God bless you and those you hold dear.
Becoming myself again with your help,
A: As you can imagine, for an author to receive a note like this is a great source of satisfaction. Sometimes I feel like I’m going to get whiplash when I read a response like yours so shortly after a very different one (like the one a few responses back). May we stay in the strong grip of our gracious God.
Subject: Question concerning post-mission
Brian,
In many ways its a great time to be involved in cross cultural mission. We see people movement on unprecedented scales, great God honouring work is happening over the globe, authentic holistic, non-colonial ministries are having a deep impact among the refugee groups that I work among.
Yet i also see storm clouds on the horizon.
Weekly I hear of colleagues who need to either leave the field due to funding issues, or send spouses out to work to supplement waning income. I note language used by others in my field that place missionaries as givers/providers and those who receive missionaries as receivers/ takers/non-providers as though they are gripping on tightly to the glory days of missions. It all appears untenable at times.
I am a missionary who feels more and more as though the missionary clothes I was sent out to the field with no longer fit me. Sure, I may like the colour, and I definitely feel my need for the clothes, but they feel more and more outdated, worn out and shrunk a little along the edges.
How do you see missions changing in coming years and how do you picture the church changing the way it sees missions?
PS - The time you and Grace spoke to us in Athens was formative in steering the way I look at the world.
A: Thanks for your kind words. I have great memories of our time in Athens! I tried to address some of these issues in “The Church on the Other Side,” especially the chapter on missions – which, by the way, if I were writing today I would do differently (but that’s another story). I remain a huge fan of David Bosch’s “Transforming Mission” and also of Lamin Sanneh’s “Translating the Message.” Maybe they would be of help to you. I hope we’ll meet again – Athens would be great!
Subject: Books for new believers
Shalom!
I know a lot of new believers, both in America and in other countries (like Pakistan) who want to know Jesus but not necessarily "convert" to Christianity. Many of them have no religious experience or foundation, and it seems that most of the emergent/postmodern books I've found assume that the reader is at least familiar with modern Christianity. What kind of books can I give to people who want to read more about Jesus and the Bible, but don't want to be indoctrinated into typical Western Christianity, or have no experience with the Christian church?
PS - I understand that Brian may not have time to get to this, but if anyone else is available to answer, I would sincerely appreciate (and utilize) any suggestions you have.
A: You and I think a lot alike. We need the kinds of books you describe. There may be books like this, but I don’t know of them. My upcoming book “The Secret Message of Jesus” might be helpful in this regard. I hope so! Someday, I’d like to write a basic introduction to Christian faith that could be used globally … but I’m not ready yet. Pray for me, OK?
Subject: Unto the Greeks foolishness...
Brian,
I know you receive tons of emails, but I felt compelled to write and it is my prayer that the Holy Spirit will speak to you in an out of the ordinary way through this modest correspondence.
I am a former Southern Baptist Sunday school teacher, and God called my husband and I out of the institutional church with all it’s programs, methods, and strategies of men to build the kingdom of God more than two years ago. The Lord has since brought me to a place where I have had to rethink almost everything I had been taught in traditional church. So I was excited to read Barna’s October report (2005) about a great movement of God across the nation. He said there are 20 million of us! Committed believers are foregoing Sunday mornings to live a 24/7 faith unfettered by the clutter and bureaucracy within the church walls. (Barna, 2005, Book cover)
A new reformation, a third great awakening – I was so excited! My husband ordered and we read the book. But, while Barna said some wonderful things, something about it troubled my Spirit. Barna mentioned the emergent church only once, but recommended many emergent resources in the back of the book. Upon reading some of the recommended sites, much of what is being said in the “conversation” resonates with what the Spirit has been speaking to me. Still, I found I was uneasy in the Spirit and sought to prayerfully put my finger on why.
Then I read “A Letter to Friends of Emergent...” on your site, and I SAW what was troublesome to the Spirit within me! I got a glimmer when you said, “The problem with the critics here is that they think they have a superior timeless gospel that floats above any culture...” I thought, “But the gospel does transcend culture...” But as I read the words of Ed Chin, I really SAW, for he states the heart of the matter. We must have “something proclaimed out of heaven, something that carries the majesty, the revelation, the heart and breath of God.”
WE can never reach the people of the earth, no matter the language or culture we speak. It takes a miracle. It takes a Word from heaven. It takes the Lord of the Universe opening their eyes – revealing Himself to them. The eyes of the blind can only be opened by a Revelation from the Living God! And that is precisely why I left the institutional church – there is precious little Word from God there! They rely on human methods to do what only the Spirit can do. The church has relied on trying to meet people where they are for centuries. They relied on reaching people by intellect during the modern era; lately they have relied on meeting “felt needs” in the seeker-sensitive movement; and now emergent seeks to reach people by being relevant to them in their culture.
We cannot simplify the gospel or try to make it more relevant so that it is understood. At Pentecost, the Spirit transcended language and culture to give utterance to those who spoke (Acts 2:4) and understanding in their own language to those who would hear (Acts 2:8,11). This is
how the gospel transcends culture – the Spirit must give utterance; the Spirit must give understanding. A miracle must take place! Something supernatural must happen, for the natural man cannot understand the things of God. This is the only way that we will accomplish the admirable goal of “bringing the gospel of the kingdom of God to postmodern people with a style of incarnation that resonates with (and in fact continues) the original Incarnation.”
As an illustration, several years ago I was troubled by the fact that those in the new believers class I was teaching appeared to be gaining very little understanding concerning the things of God. They seemed unable to grasp what the Lord was giving me to teach and they were not reading the Bible or seeking God for themselves. I longed to see them grow in the Lord, and
I asked the Lord if I should use a simpler translation of the Bible to further their understanding.
After about a week of earnest prayer, the Lord spoke and said very simply, “They don’t need simpler translations. They need more desire.”
In effect, we keep trying to give people earthbound “simpler translations” in a heartfelt desire to see people come to know and follow Jesus. But the House of the Lord must be built, “Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the Lord of hosts” (Zech 4:6). It cannot be done in the natural, but must be done in the Spirit.
I am reminded of 1 Corin. 1:21- 24, which says, “...it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; But unto them which are called, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.”
1 Corin. 2:13 goes on to say, “Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy ghost teacheth;”
We must speak as the Holy Spirit gives utterance and depend on Him alone for the increase if we are to be part of the building of His Kingdom. It is the hardest task of all not to go forward in our own strength but to wait on the Lord.
A: Amen. Amen. Learning this tender place of being passionate, energetic, committed, and active … AND at the same time being dependent on the Spirit, leaning back, listening, trusting, waiting, not pushing or rushing, collaborating and never working alone … that’s one of the arts of ministry that you are learning. Your description of it will help many others who read these conversations. Keep up the good work, depending on the Lord.
Subject: An integral vision in protestant church?
Mr. McLaren,
Hello, I hope you and your family are doing well.
I've been reading "A Theory of Everything" and have been amazed at the work that so many individuals are doing to create an integral vision of the world. I've been to the IntegralNaked institute's website and have been able to see the work of some great men of Christianity who are trying to create loving and brotherly conversations with branches of other religions and practices.
Only Catholic Priests or Catholic Monks are present there. Also, in other books I read I hardly ever encounter protestants mentioned as part of the great intelectuals and souls of the world. Why is this so? I have a feeling that there's a strong fear of thinking in the protestant church worldwide.
I wrote about my questions here: http://dionpugil.wordpress.com/2005/11/13/who-are-the-protestant-thinkers/
Related to all of this, I think it's absurd that you have to deal with cristism from the protestant church when characters like NEO should be the common christian.
Anyways, who are the protestant thinkers? Who are the men that are involved worldwide in developing new and exiting ideas and creating harmony around the world?
Thanks for listening.
God speed.
A: Good question! There is a kind of narrowness that runs rampant in Protestantism that may make people who are unwilling to enter into the larger conversations in our culture. Dallas Willard is a positive counter-example, and I know there are many more. My friend Jay Gary (christianfutures.com) is engaging Wilber’s work in thoughtful ways, and so are a number of other people. Maybe you’re one of the new post-protestant voices who will become what you see we lack?
Hi Brian McLaren,
I met you briefly this past weekend as I was the coordinator of X conference. I am the person of short stature who laughed at your “little people will take over the world” joke. I felt a little quiet during the times I could have talked to you this weekend, because I was so overwhelmed by the compassion in your message. I also didn’t want to stand in line like a “groupie”, you see I was the personal assistant to two national speakers for three years – and I remember the never-ending lines of people. I also know that I don’t really know you – in my experience people sometimes mistake hearing a great speaker for knowing one personally. Nonetheless though, I risk looking like an idiot and wanted to email you and let you know that I was profoundly impacted by your message – and I mean that sincerely, not in a creepy stalker-type of way.
Specifically, it was like you unveiled a Jesus I had never met. Not in that you created a new Jesus – but you pointed toward the One who is. (Similarly, N.T. Wright has as well in his book The Challenge of Jesus). I have always struggled with Christianity and violence being seemingly interrelated – or at least people’s portrayal that they are interrelated. I find myself now in full-time ministry at X Church, in the ordination process, finally realizing this is why I have never fully allowed myself to trust Jesus. I don’t know where I got this – but somewhere along the lines I got the message that God condones/supports child abuse because as “Father” he sent “his Son” to die in an act of violence. At the head level, I realize that this is a misunderstanding of the interrelatedness of the Trinity and not truth – but somewhere along the lines my heart never quite got the memo. Based on Christian history, being kind of a minority and coming from an abusive family background (you don’t have to worry, I’m”healing” with a trained professional…I’m not needing to dump on you. :)) I just always thought this was something God turned his eyes from. And so, now I find myself just beginning to trust God at more than an intellectual level. I find myself in full-time ministry finally relishing in the fact that God is not an eternal God of anger and violence.
You are also a seemingly gentle communicator. I don’t hear that a lot from Christian communicators, if ever. My past work with speakers has meant I have heard dozens of professional speakers, as well as known them personally. And none quite as good with coupling communicating in a tone that represents who Jesus is and actually being a kind person. Your very message and presence was really healing. I think it will continue to impact me for the rest of my life. Vulnerably speaking, I was deeply impacted by your presence, it changed my understanding of what strength and gentleness looks like. I’m really, really thankful I got to meet you.
I’m reading your books voraciously and I hope to see you again. I would love to be able to bounce some questions off of you – but I know you must be the busiest person probably getting hundreds of emails a day. Thank you so much for being you and offering hope. (By the way, I also hear your wife is really funny!)
Blessings and thank you,
A: One of the best things in my life is traveling and getting to meet wonderful people like you – whatever their size! One of my friends – a Twa – says “I try to watch my height.” Thanks for your kind words. I am thrilled to think that a young woman with leadership gifts oozing from her is going to be “let loose on the world” in the years to come. Watch out world!
It truly is good news to know that there is a holy God, a just a righteous God, a God who hates evil and injustice – but loves people, all people. God is truly “light, in whom there is no darkness at all.”
Subject: A friend asked me if there is a God, how do you explain evil.
The best thing about God is her creativity. She is the original artist. This world is her way of giving us a space to create. He gives us a box of crayons and a canvas and says "see how nice it is to make something on your own? draw something". God is all around us, he is in us, we are notes in his song. Somewhere in heaven when we get sick of being a note in the perfect song, God lets us come here and compose a song of our own. Sometimes our songs sad, often they are broken and incomplete because while we are all a key part of God's song, God is quieter here than in heaven. He wants us to be able to hear our own thoughts. Some songs are heroic and some are horrific. When we get to heaven God will play our song and look for the best ways to add our little crayon drawings to his refrigerator.
Why is there evil in the world? Someone drew it. Could have been you, could have been someone else. It seems unfair, but the point in life isn't to say why isn't this place fair, but to look around and say what can I sing to help all these people hear the perfect song better. Some people are given the crayon box with 64 colors and built in sharpener and a canvas so large they could draw the most amazing things, some people get one crayon and the back of a discarded envelope. What do we look like when we stamp our feet and say, she has a bigger sketchbook than I do, or isn't fair I can't draw the same thing she is because I am missing peach color? For that is all evil is. It is what we perceive as injustice. But life isn't about the outcomes it is about creating. With or without evil, we are all going to die. We are all going to stand before God and he will ask us what we did you draw yesterday in school?
The poet only asks to get his head into the heavens. It is the logician who seeks to get the heavens into his head. And it is his head that splits...
-GK Chesterton
A: Thanks for your parable! It will stimulate many readers here to think about themselves as artists who could be complaining or … creating beauty.
Subject: Reference to Mark 12:27 - Pg 164 "The Last Word...
On page 164 of "The Last Word . . ." I have a real concern about Brian's quote of Mark 12:27 where he adds a final phrase to the verse: "...for to Him all are alive."
This phrase then supports his conclusion in the next paragraph that "for Jesus, the key was that to God, all are alive."
Where did Brian find this phrase in Mark 12:27 - "for to him all are alive?"
I don't want to think that this is a case of overt dishonesty with Scripture in order to support a personal conclusion.
I have enjoyed this book and the challenges that it presents, and while I don't agree with all of Brian's positions, I can disagree lovingly. I do however, have a problem with dishonesty. Was this a typographical error, or an addition to Scripture?
A: First, thanks for paying attention and thanks for asking. You’ll find that phrase if you look at Luke’s version, not Mark’s (Luke 20:38). So, it was dishonesty, a typo, or an addition to Scripture. It was quoting a different version of the story. By asking a question rather than making an assertion or accusation, you helped me by not spreading a misjudgment of my work, and I hope this will be helpful for you as well. Again, thanks.
Subject: question for Brian...
Brian (or whomever reads this for Brian),
I’m looking forward to “The Secret Message of Jesus”. Your books have been a blessing, a challenge, and a vehicle for spiritual growth in my life. After reading several of your books, and others of like mind, I realized that I’ve had a skewed understanding of “the kingdom of God”. I now see the kingdom of God as Jesus’ vision for the future of all creation or his version of the next chapter in our collective story. My old view of the kingdom was seeing it as an “in group” or “chosen people” of God. That one small shift in paradigm is radically changing my life and attitude toward the service of others. I’m interested to see if I gleaned this correctly from your books and if this view of the kingdom (or some other) will be at the forefront of your new book.
Have you read Tolstoy’s “The gospel in brief”? I wonder if you have incorporated any of his thoughts about Jesus’ message in your understanding.
A: I can’t remember reading that work by Tolstoy, though I’ve read a lot of his work. He really sought to understand the kingdom.
Subject: question
Dear Mr. McLaren, ?I am a journalism grad student at the University of X. I am creating a magazine for young adults ?exploring faith. For one of the articles I am compiling ?quotes from a variety of influential people of faith to ?answer the following question:
How do you counsel a young believer who is doubting their ?faith?
I know you dealt with the doubts of your own daughter, so ?this topic is probably very relevant to you. I looked at ?your conference schedule-- so I won't be surprised if you ?don't have time to reply. But if you do, I will be very, ?very grateful. ?Sincerely, ?
A: Actually, my book Finding Faith is an answer to your question. I build it around common questions and doubts. I hope it will help your friend. Thanks for being there for him or her!
Subject: emergent seminaries...
I’ll keep this short and to the point…
Other than Mars Hill Graduate School in Seattle, are there any other grad schools out there who are wholly emergent in their thinking, approach to education, theology, and culture? I know of may schools that have “emergent courses”, but what about schools that are doing what Mars Hill is doing? I’d like to know all my options before considering only one….
A: I’ve worked for Mars Hill, Biblical (Philadelphia), Fuller (Pasadena), and George Fox (Portland). All of these schools are doing great work with sensitivity to emergent issues. As well, each school has a different “vibe” – so it’s worth finding the one that is just right for you.
Subject: a heartfelt cry...
Dear Brian,
I have so much to say, but realize that your time is precious, so I will try and be as concise as possible...
First of all, I have met you once (at Emergent... Nashville... 2004), and my husband has talked with you a few times, and we both have come to admire you so much as your ideas and your books and your humility and example have all been so helpful to our own spiritual journeys... so THANK YOU!!!
Secondly, I read The Last Word a few months ago and could hardly describe the feelings I had as I reading and after I had finished... I think the best way to describe it was... that I felt that I had come to faith all over again! I felt that my heart was finally released to see God as I had always wanted to see Him, and I was so filled with joy, awe, praise, and excitement about His kingdom!
I'm not sure what has happened since then, but never have I ever been so plagued with such internal battles and questions and doubts about my faith. I seem to not be able to "rest" in anything anymore, and I feel so uncertain about EVERYTHING I once believed.
I have finally been able to put my internal angst into words, and I believe this is what it all comes down to...
I just cannot come to grips with how God works. When I read the Bible, I see God as very involved... performing miracles... in control of nature... sovereign... "just" to the point of "cruel" to me, etc... Yet the God I want to believe in does NOT cause tsunamis or earthquakes or barrenness or poverty, and He doesn't have in mind some "greater purpose" for all tragedies in life. Instead the God I so desperately want to believe in hurts and cares when tragedy strikes, yet is limited in power by we His church... we are his hands and feet, and it is up to us to listen to His spirit and respond as kingdom people should. Yet this stream of thinking takes away God's power, does it not?
How can I come to grips with God's mercy and His power? I find myself haunted by the question... "if God could have kept this little child from being beaten to death (for example), why did He not?"
And do you think I am way out of line for asking these questions of God? I, the clay, asking the potter?
Thank you so much for taking the time to read this. May you and your family continue to find your strength and joy in our Father,
A: First, thanks for writing. I know that so many people will resonate with your question. As you can imagine, trying to address “the problem of evil” is not an easy task if you have 1000 pages, and so I hardly know where to begin in a few brief words.
I don’t think you’re out of line to ask these questions to God. You’re doing exactly what Job did. He refused to be satisfied with “easy answers” that didn’t seem honest. He wrestled with God and God validated his faith.
As I said in a previous question, so many of our problems aren’t exactly with the Bible, but with the assumptions we bring to the Bible – assumptions about how it’s to be interpreted, assumptions about what it is and how it communicates.
Let me recommend to you a book I just recently read. It’s by Judith Kunst and it has the word “Midrash” in the title (I’m in France at the moment, in a cold little hotel without internet, so I don’t have the full title at my fingertips), published by Paraclete, I believe. I think it will give you some space to approach the Bible in a more Jewish way – more Job-like, and less like Job’s friends.
One other thing. I’ve found it most helpful to conceive of God’s relationship with the universe to be one of a father or mother with children rather than a machine operator with his machine. Parents don’t want a mechanistic relationship with their children; it is their will not to impose their will on their child’s every move, every decision, every development. They want beauty and novelty and freedom for their children. If you come to the Bible with that assumption (an assumption that I think is central to Jesus’ view of things), then you might find some of the other problems fall into place.
I hope this very brief answer is of some small help to you.
Subject: Overwhelmed
Hi Brian,
I recently heard you speak at the Generous Orthodoxy Conference, 1st Free Methodist Church's Sunday morning service, and SPU's forum and chapel - it's been what I've referenced to friends as a "McLaren marathon." I just have a question for you that I'm still muddling over, but I know you're extremely busy these days so I understand completely if you don't have time to respond.
When I sit down to think about how infused my theology is with 'modern' ideas, I feel both blessed (after all, weren't the Reformers and many other great revolutionaries modern?) and cursed (how on earth anyone was ever able to reduce the Christian faith to 4 Spiritual Laws I'll never know). However, I'm not sure how to read Scripture from a postmodern perspective - A New Kind of Christian was enlightening, but when I try to read the text from a fresh perspective I often feel lost, like I'm on a journey without a compass. You really made things a lot more complex for those of us that are learning from you, Brian!
The more I try to understand Scripture and Theology from a postmodern perspective, the more it eludes me. I feel like I have to have a complete understanding of world history, cultural traditions, Hebrew, ancient Greek, biology, ecology, music, psychology, philosophy, world religions, poetry, literature (the list goes on, so I'll stop) before even beginning to understand the story of Christianity. The task is bigger than I know how to take on, and it makes me feel like I need the Church - and the entire world - more than ever, just so that they can begin to teach me about all these things, so that I can better understand God.
Is there any way becoming a post-modern Christian is less complicated, overwhelming, and scary?
Peace of Christ (I'll need some of that),
A: What a great and honest question. First, I’m sorry for any ways that I overcomplicate things. Other people are upset with me for oversimplifying things! As you can imagine, it’s impossible to hit the right balance that everybody needs.
Second, remember that becoming a post-modern Christian isn’t the point. The point is becoming an authentic disciple of Jesus, and if you live in a postmodern context, that’s where you need to work it out. But let’s hope that being a Christian modifies the way you’re postmodern more than the way you’re postmodern modifies the way you’re a Christian.
You’ll see a recommendation in a previous posting for Judith Kunst’s new book. I think you’ll find it helpful too. I’ve also found Walter Brueggemann’s writings helpful in exemplifying a new approach to the Bible. Try his “Prophetic Imagination” or “Ichabod towards Home.”
I wish this were easier for all of us. But maybe it has to be hard. God bless you and give you endurance so you won’t be discouraged!
Subject: Just a quick connection
Brian,
Have been in dialogue with Len Sweet and wanted to throw our website your way. We are planting what many are terming; an “emerging church” but we are planting this church in Utah of all places. I don’t care what anyone wants to call it, but we are just trying to share the old story in a new language and mindset. Anyways, love your books they have encouraged me that I’m not alone in my thoughts as a leader. Check out our website, especially our video in the services section, and if you get a chance let me know what you think. Ok, well…talk later.
www.elevation.cc
A: I’m leaving up the link so that others can check it out and perhaps send in their feedback. God bless you in your new endeavor. You’re in one of the most beautiful states in the Union!
Subject: YOU ROCK MAN!!!!
Brian, ?I do not even really know if you personally will even get this, i just ?recently attended the Generous Orthodoxy Seminar up in Seattle Washington, ?My name is X. I am 22 i will be 23 in Feb, I grew up in the ?Christian faith all my life, I also grew up like your typical high School ?kid who played sports and partied a lot. I got a Track schollarship to ?Portland State University, and then i gave that up to become a Professional ?snowboarder. I gave that up also about a year ago, that is when i started ?getting involved in my church, X in X ?Oregon. I started Helping out in the College group, and then i started ?leading a small bible study, then i started helping in the Youth Group. ?Since then God has placed me in the position of the Young Adult Minister, ?and i teach in the Youth Group. I also am now preaching once a month, and i ?believe that i am being led by God to one day become a church planter. I ?have been filled with the ideas and beliefs that where talked about in ?Seattle for some time now, but i have never really known if i should voice ?them or not. After being up there at the Seminar it has shown me that there ?are other people that have the same thoughts the same beliefs that i have, ?and it has been an inspiration for me, to no longer be afraid of weather or ?not i was completely off base in my thinking. well anyway i wrote a little ?bit about it in the blog that i have, and i was wondering if you would check ?it out, if you are not to busy that is. Thank you so much for your time. ?Keep doing Gods good work.
A: Same to you! We need creative new churches. May God prepare you and at the right time launch you out to plant a new church that can become a model and inspiration for many others.