I've seen the film she refers to - it really is worth seeing.

Also worth seeing - Bob Roberts and Prince Turqi model Christian-Muslim dialogue:

Prince Turqi of Saudi Arabia from Glocalnetblog on Vimeo.

In North Carolina
In Tennessee
In Minnesota
In Baltimore
In Edmonton, AB, Canada
In Hong Kong
In Cambodia
In Boston, MA
In Houston, TX
In Toronto, Canada
In Boston, MA
In Philadelphia, PA
In Shreveport, LA
In VA Beach, VA
In Louisville, KY
In Dallas, TX
In Philadelphia, PA

I think I'm late in the game here with that particular discussion, as it seems a point of exhaustion feels to be at hand, by some people at least. However, I just want to pose some comments: It seems to me that Paul (in 1 Corinthians 10) is chastizing all of us who debate and divide over interpretation of scripture - not that what you are doing is wrong - I think it's necessary for all of us to process scripture on a much deeper level than 'literally'. I just think that people need to move past interpretation into action, out of theology and into practice, out of conversation and into friendship, out of division and into unity - at all cost. Perhaps we need a third voice beyond evangelical and emergent encouraging us to be radically united with even those whom we disagree, and find ways around theology we don't agree with by working out what it means to act on that theology. I do see the problem with the greco-roman narrative though. If we take that narrative as the thing that God has ordained (that is, perfection/fall/savation or eternal tormet), then our action becomes "tell everyeone how sinful they are, and get them saved by the blood of Jesus so that they can convert others and save them also". The end result is that we fixate on the wonder of the cross, and refuse to mature beyond this into the world of being post-resurrection, post-giving of the spirit people who live in eternal ways and make conciously eternal descisions, and repent when necessary. We do need to be reminded of the cross - which is why we were given the eucharist. I would propose that we take time to reflect on the cross, but that we also must take time to reflect critically and thoughfully on how the cross impacts our daily descisions and routines and interactions. I dont think this means that the narrative is wrong, I just think it means we aren't seeing the entire scope of it - which includes a whole lot of things happening on earth. If we are saved, then we are in a prime position with the power of the living God at our sides to help the poor with their poverty, care for the widow and orphan and be radically generous with our finances, resources, knowledge and time.

Thanks for these comments. It isn't super helpful when one group says, "We are the ones who value the cross, and you don't," and the other group says, "Your view of the cross is narrow and one-dimensional. We are the ones who value the cross more fully." This quickly degenerates into the same-old same-old of "We're better than you," which then degenerates into "We're good/right; you're bad/wrong," which can then degenerate even further.

Far better, I think, for us to try to see the deeper concerns of the "other side." Some of those concerns are "purely" theological (which view makes more sense in relation to all the Scriptural witness?), but some are social (won't these new ideas divide my beloved community?), political (won't those old ideas lead to continuing oppression?), practical (if I fail to uphold "our" view, won't I lose friends - or my job?), and emotional (how could I ever differ from my parents, grandparents, and other authority figures - or my peers?).

In the end, many of us may simply have to differ - but I hope we can even then come together, as you say,

to help the poor with their poverty, care for the widow and orphan and be radically generous with our finances, resources, knowledge and time.

I am confused about prayer and the point of intercessory prayer. I understand prayer is great for developing, strengthening and maintaining your relationship with God, and to provide a means of listening to God and aligning yourself with his desires and intents for you on earth. However I don’t understand what intercessory prayer achieves. Does God really intervene directly in our lives? A dear friend recently told me she was abused for many years as a child. She prayed to God for it to stop, but it didn’t. She questioned, if God is all-powerful, why didn’t he stop that? Why didn’t he intervene?

People pray for sick people; sometimes they get better, sometimes they don’t. Other friends of mine have a daughter with leukaemia. They say things like “God was merciful and her blood count was good today”. So what, if her blood count was bad that means God was punishing her or something??? They think that because she has leukaemia, God must have specifically chosen her to have it so that he could in some way be glorified through their reaction to it. I can’t believe that and don’t want to worship a God who would work that way.

I know “God is not a slot machine” and we shouldn’t pray for a specific thing and then be baffled if it doesn’t happen. But I don’t really get how the whole system hangs together. Does God intervene, or not? If he does, why doesn’t it happen more often when people earnestly pray for things like healing? Why do miracles sometimes happen, but usually don’t? Is there a better way of praying that doesn’t lead to the confusion of apparent negative answers? I get very angry when people are told “It’s because you didn’t have enough faith that your prayer wasn’t answered.” I think that’s a load of BS, but frankly I don’t understand how it all works and would love a clearer picture of how to pray for others in a way that doesn’t lead to disappointment and confusion.

Many thanks if you have the time to respond to this.

God bless you richly for all you are working towards. Your vision of what Christians could be here on earth is inspiring. A very deep thank you to you from me.

You have articulated this question so well ... and your theological instincts, I think, are good, i.e. you are excluding bad-faith potential answers in a wise way.

My friend Kent Annan is writing a book on suffering, based on his work in Haiti before and after the earthquake, that grapples with these issues more honestly than anything I've ever read. It comes out in January - here's the link ...

My next book - we just decided on a title (TBA soon) - is about the spiritual life, and it deals with intercessory and petitionary prayer in some detail. Like you, I find a host of problems arise whenever people try to turn prayer into a fast, easy, convenient, and guaranteed (!) technique for achieving results "out there." I'm especially interested - both in my life and in the book - in how prayer achieves results "in here" - in my soul, my character, my innermost being. And then I'm interested in how "in here" results bring change "out there." So instead of seeing the two dimensions in opposition or as unrelated, I want to see them as interrelated.

The deeper issue you're raising - especially in the area of "intervention" - is God's agency, i.e. what kind of relationship God wants to have with the universe. The only place i've written on this in some detail is The Story We Find Ourselves In.

As you can tell from NKOCy, I think that many of our concepts of God's agency come from imperial, Greco-Roman frameworks, where they served the political purpose of pacifying people for submission to the powers that be. In contrast, the view of God's agency that is emerging today is much more relational than mechanistic, and much more inherent than interventionist, and it leads more to contemplative activism than to docility or imperial collaboration.

I hope that helps a little ... this isn't the kind of question you find a quick answer to, at least not a quick good answer to!

Hi Brian,
I am an avid follower of your blog and am reading one of your books right now for the first time. You're different way of thinking has truly helped me re-frame my traditional evangelical upbringing. I had never heard of "Big Tent Christianity" until your recent post about it as part of the synchroblog. From your post, I gathered it was a pretty cool concept. Then I read another post from a blog I follow "Ethnic Space and Faith" where the writer talked about an injustice done to him from White Christians...in relation to being asked to contribute to the Big Tent synchroblog. I am continually trying to broaden my perspective and be more vigilant against the subtle kind of discrimination and racism that is (some would say) inherent in dominant culture. So I wanted to ask someone I respected, what is this blog writer referring to? Is there something about Big Tent Christianity that only serves dominant white Christians at the expense of others?

the blog post I'm referring to:
http://ethnicspace.wordpress.com/2010/08/13/honest-hatred-under-the-big-tent/

Randy wrote a really important chapter in The Justice Project, which I helped edit. He talks there about the importance of people of privilege staying at the table - not walking away mad - when people who have suffered under their power bring up uncomfortable topics and perhaps do so in provocative ways. If something of value comes from the Big Tent gathering, it will be essential to pay attention to issues of white privilege (and male privilege, etc.).

See also Randy's post here ...
http://ethnicspace.wordpress.com/2010/08/20/converting-the-missionaries-among-us-lessons-from-jesus-in-luke-4-by-randy-woodley/

I hope more and more people will listen to Randy, and not leave the table mad when we feel uncomfortable. Discomfort is often the fanfare heralding the arrival of major insight.

On a more hopeful note, see this - an example of Baptists (and others) in Virginia supporting needed action on past and continuing racism. It's been said that racism is America's original sin - and recent news suggests we haven't faced it very well yet.

Emergent Village will be releasing a short piece I wrote on the subject soon.

Be there November 1-3 if you can - and if you can't, educate yourself on this important theme. These blogs are a good start ...

And even if you can't be there, stay tuned ... hopefully lots of good things will unfold in the months to come from this time together.

Others discover they can't in good conscience make the faith they inherited their own - they face realities of science, history, psychology, philosophy, or even their own psyche that can't coexist honestly with their inherited faith. Some who find themselves in that situation simply put faith aside entirely. Others have to go through a painful but essential and tremendously creative process of adapting their inherited faith (instead of adopting it without adaptations). I'm always glad to hear when my books help young adults do the latter.

Many of us have wondered how to facilitate that process of helping young adults adapt their inherited faith so they can have a faith they truly and wholeheartedly celebrate. And we've wondered how to teach the faith to children in such a way that it will support rather than hinder their intellectual, interpersonal, ethical, and personal growth later on ... which is why I'm enthusiastic about the event that just was announced last week.

Here's a note from a recent college graduate ...

I wanted to follow up after speaking with you about 3 weeks ago when you spoke at CRCC. I recently graduated from [an Evangelical Christian university] with a degree in XXX & just in the last few months came out [as gay] to my parents.

Thank you so much for the deep compassion and love you demonstrated in speaking with me & introducing me to others at your church. Your kindness is greatly appreciated!!!! I also wanted to again thank you for boldness in writing your books. I know that you have dealt with a lot of condemnation & I'm sure lots of misunderstanding critics. Thank you for putting up with that in order to reach those of us who have desperately needed to hear from you. In particular, I wanted to tell you about 2 stories that have touched me & have caused me to think & understand Jesus & the world differently.

I believe it was in The Secret Message of Jesus that you describe the gospel metaphorically through the story of a kingdom overtaken by an evil empire of sorts...the King is overthrown & he becomes a beggar in order to demonstrate his love toward his subjects. It would take pages for me to describe to you the experience that resulted from my reading of this story. It changed me more than any other version of the gospel I've ever read & allowed me to finally let go of my hatred for God & begin to actually love him. Thank you for sharing this story!!!

The second story that I have loved is the one about Tony Campolo throwing a party for a prostitute at 3am in a donut shop. For much of my life I have struggled to overcome the belief that humans are inherently evil & always set on hurting others...this story helped me to believe in the powerful mystery of God working through his followers to create life & love rather than destruction.

I hope that God continues to strengthen you (physically & in every other way!) to continue listening to his gentle voice & following him.

Thanks for the note. It was a real pleasure to meet you. I hope our paths cross again soon.

I hope you have found time to enjoy your summer amidst the busy schedule I see you have. In the past six months I have read five of your books, and four of them have passed on to others to share your insight into God's plans for us as a human family. My wife of a couple of months and I always read aloud to one another. We certainly read books on our own, usually many at a time, but each night we come back to one book that we share together. Currently that book is one of yours, Everything Must Change. The book has been a catalyst for conversation both while lying in bed, around the breakfast table, and these conversations we share serve to instigate others with individuals at our place of work and at our church. The ideas and interpretations presented in this book are truly inspiring and have both of us itching to get out into the world and share the message of hope, the message of Jesus, with the world.
I'm sure you've heard testimonies like this hundreds of times, and I thank you for at least having an email address to field this, I suppose.... Thank you for your time, your tireless spirit, your inspiration, and your ambition for change.

Wow - I don't think I've ever had anyone read five of my books in six months before! Thanks so much for the encouraging note. And please know that encouragement like this not only means a lot to me, but also I think it also encourages others who have read the books ... to know that they aren't alone in their sense that "everything must change."

I have recently been reading your books and website. I am constantly amazed at how God puts people in our paths who we can walk parts of our journey with…Your story and mine are very similar. In my 30 year journey with Christ (made “official” at age 10 – though I don’t ever remember not knowing Jesus) I have been to various churches from Presbyterian, UCC, to Methodist, to Assemblies of God and other Pentacostal influence (still detoxing), to a year in Catholic school, to my current Vineyard. I have always seen beautiful things in each (I love the idea of the Rosary, I love “walking in the gifts of the Spirit”, find value in the less ‘spirit-filled’ denominations) and have grown with each new exposure. The problem I have encountered the most is the problem of feeling like I’m some sort of rebel when I start to ask questions and poke around at the theologies/hermeneutics, eschatologies that don’t sit with my spirit. I find that there are usually only a few I can share my thoughts with and not get the ‘I still love you but I’m worried about you’ look or warnings about being careful of who /what I read because there are false teachers lurking in the darkness. I have longed for a harmonizing of the positive things I see in all the faiths that call themselves by Jesus’ name, and an honoring of those who do not. I like to venture into other camps and find Jesus there. It’s awesome. But not popular, not deemed ‘safe’ unless you are a person with a proper degree in conservative Biblical studies. Finding your writings as well as those of some others (Rob Bell – gasp! He says we should contemplate!), Gulley and Mullholland (oh, no! God might save everyone?!) have been so refreshing.

This weekend I was watching a baby dedication/baptism at a Methodist church and found myself chafing under some of the language (though stated in pretty words) that seemed to indicate that this child was sinful and dirty prior to the baptism and “part of the family of faith” only AFTER water was placed on her head…I get the whole symbolism behind it, and I know the Biblical grounds for it, I just wonder if people would be better served if we baptized them into a knowledge of who they already are because of the work Christ already accomplished – especially when dedicating or Baptizing a child. Maybe that’s heretical and erroneous. I just can’t look at a child and see sinfulness.

I don’t want to leave the universal Church as Anne Rice recently declared. My xxx family has exposed me to a kind of community love that I can’t imagine leaving. I want to stay – and feel called to stay – and maybe weave into our family a broader view of our impossibly huge God.

I need to know I am not alone in this…So, thanks, man, for your courage and example!! That’s all I really wanted to say. Thanks if you made it this far!!

(I guess we both suffer from long paragraph/parenthetical statement syndrome as well)….

Thanks for your note. This sin-focused language relates a lot to the Greco-Roman narrative I talk about in New Kind of Christianity.

If you've never read Jerome Berryman's writings on children and God, I highly recommend them. I finished Godly Play recently and am enjoying Children and the Theologians now.

I've found it interesting to read about why you don't accept comments on your blog. I find it interesting because as a young (32) software developer who spends a lot of time online and in some online communities, I've been amazed at how inappropriate the internet can be as a conversation mechanism for things as deep and personal as faith and spirituality. The anonymity of the internet provides a place for people to behave and act as they never would in a face-to-face conversation. Also, as with other mediums, when you read words on a page, you miss all the context of personality, body language, eye contact, etc. -- things that make a world of difference when trying to communicate sufficiently complex, deep, and personal thoughts.

Of course, not that it's a bad thing, I love the internet and I love books -- but that is one-way communication and it isn't a real-time (or close to it) conversation and I think that everybody would be better off if it stayed that way. ;)
I have observed, and have been guilty on more than one occasion of engaging in an online conversation on facebook regarding these topics, and my anecdotal evidence is that they rarely end well, unless everybody sees eye-to-eye from the start.

So thanks for providing excellent conversation starters! I hope you continue to encourage people to continue the conversation by engaging in their local communities where they can know and be known by others, and not anonymously (or semi-anonymously) participate in pure information sharing on the internet.

Martin Luther King Jr. Was a Social Justice Christian
Sojourners

This coming Saturday, August 28 will mark the 47th anniversary of the March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom, where King delivered his famous "I Have a Dream Speech." Glenn Beck has chosen this day to deliver his own speech from the steps of the Lincoln memorial.

On that same morning I will be speaking at the dedication ceremony of a work of public art that commemorates the words and legacy of King. It is not a protest. Rather, it is an opportunity to reflect on what this great American had to say and is still saying to our country today. Whenever we take the time to collectively consider what that dream was, we all benefit.

My picture has graced the Glenn Beck blackboard a number of times over the past year. I am quite sure that if the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. were alive today, he would have been on Glenn Beck's blackboard long before I would have ever been considered. That is because Martin Luther King Jr. was clearly a Social Justice Christian -- the term and people that Beck constantly derides. If the Christians of King's era had listened to Glenn Beck, they would have been forced to walk out on MLK's "I Have a Dream" speech. If they were to heed his advice to turn in social justice pastors to the church authorities, they all would have had to turn in Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

On December 18, 1963, at Western Michigan University, King gave a speech whose topic was "social justice and the emerging new age." If Glenn Beck had been there, I don't doubt that he would have gotten up and walked out as he has told his viewers to do if they hear "social justice" from their pastors. It might be foolish, but I hope that as Glenn Beck prepares for his rally on Saturday, he takes the time to read this speech and think about what it says. In it King explained why for justice to be just it can not only be individual, but must also be social:

"All I'm saying is simply this, that all life is interrelated, that somehow we're caught in an inescapable network of mutuality tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly affects all indirectly. For some strange reason, I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality."
This is why in the Old Testament, God commands his people to be charitable but also to work for justice. The people of God are to give offerings of their own free will, but there are also laws that show the government has a legitimate role to play. As a Christian, I believe that Jesus changes people's hearts and lives, and that is something that government policy can never compete with. But, I also believe that personal charity does not do the work of justice. Here is how King put it in that same speech:

"Now the other myth that gets around is the idea that legislation cannot really solve the problem and that it has no great role to play in this period of social change because you've got to change the heart and you can't change the heart through legislation. You can't legislate morals. The job must be done through education and religion. Well, there's half-truth involved here. Certainly, if the problem is to be solved then in the final sense, hearts must be changed. Religion and education must play a great role in changing the heart. But we must go on to say that while it may be true that morality cannot be legislated, behavior can be regulated. It may be true that the law cannot change the heart but it can restrain the heartless. It may be true that the law cannot make a man love me but it can keep him from lynching me and I think that is pretty important, also. So there is a need for executive orders. There is a need for judicial decrees. There is a need for civil rights legislation on the local scale within states and on the national scale from the federal government."
King recognized misunderstandings like this as obstacles to social justice. But, ultimately he was hopeful:

"I think with all of these challenges being met and with all of the work, and determination going on, we will be able to go this additional distance and achieve the ideal, the goal of the new age, the age of social justice."
Yes, King named social justice as the goal of the new age. This is why so many Christians were willing to turn themselves in to Glenn Beck as Social Justice Christians. It was not difficult for them to choose between King's interpretation of the gospel and Beck's interpretation that I know some in his own Mormon church are not comfortable with Did King believe that the role of government was only to eliminate discrimination? No. As he wrote in "Showdown for Nonviolence" in 1968, it played a role in ending poverty too:

"We will place the problems of the poor at the seat of government of the wealthiest nation in the history of mankind. If that power refuses to acknowledge its debt to the poor, it would have failed to live up to its promise to insure 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness to its citizens.'" (From A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King Jr.)
Now, Beck and I do have one area of significant agreement. When he spoke about the civil rights movement in context of the debate around health care he said, "Who were the civil rights marchers? They were people with profound belief in God." This is true. Both Beck and I would probably agree that the most powerful social movements are rooted in deep faith. But he finished that thought saying, "They were trying to set things right. They weren't crying for social justice, they were crying out for equal justice." Beck's mistake is to somehow think that the two can be separated. Beck has lied again and again about me and so many others; it saddens me to hear him now try to rewrite the legacy of Martin Luther King. When you do the work of social justice there are always criticisms, detractors, and those who will slander and lie. But, in the words of Dr. King in 1961 to the AFL-CIO:

"Yes, before the victory is won, some will be misunderstood. Some will be called Reds and Communists merely because they believe in economic justice and the brotherhood of man. But we shall overcome."
Glenn Beck has continually called me, Sojourners, and many others "communists, socialists, and Marxists" because we call for "economic and social justice." If he were an honest man, he would have to include Dr. King as well. But King must have been thinking about the Glenn Becks of his time when he concluded his speech at Western Michigan University:

"In spite of the difficulties of this hour, I am convinced that we have the resources to make the American Dream a reality. I am convinced of this because I believe Carlyle is right: 'No lie can live forever.' I am convinced of this because I believe William Cullen Bryant is right: 'Truth pressed to earth will rise again.' I am convinced of this because I think James Russell Lowell is right: 'Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne; Yet that scaffold sways the future, And behind the dim unknown, Standeth God within the shadow, Keeping watch above His own.' Somehow with this faith, we will be able to adjourn the councils of despair and bring new life into the dark chambers of pessimism. With this faith, we will be able to transform the jangling discords of our nation to a beautiful symphony of brotherhood. This will be a great day. This will be the day when all of God's children, black [people] and white [people], Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual, 'Free at last! Free at last! Thank God, Almighty, we are free at last!'"